BCR2000-preset, beta 2

[Bassman]

Hi:)

@MarKo

kannst noch mal genauer beschreiben, wie sich das jetzt bei dir verhält?
ich versteh nämlich nicht wie du jetzt auf +/- kommst, das hat doch da nix verloren?
möglicherweise hab ich auch noch eine alternative Idee...

Ich hab dieses Wait gelöscht und den vorhandenen Wert mit Num+ x10 geändert, beim Drehen geht das Tempo dann um 0,1 nach oben, aber wenn ich nach links drehe ist es genauso, es geht nur nach oben verständlicherweise, das Tempo müsste beim Drehen nach links nach unten gehn! Ich weiss aber nicht wie ich den Controller dazu zu bringen wie er das weiss ob ich nqach links oder rechts drehe, vielleicht gehe ich das auch völlig falsch an:)

Heinz.

[MarKo]

The other problem with this idea is that the jog function does not update the now time even though it it moves the now line on the screen?

Hi Stevie,
please wait for the next version (hopefully today), i have this already working.
at least if you are doing it "backwards", like you said before.

[MarKo]

Ich hab dieses Wait gelöscht und den vorhandenen Wert mit Num+ x10 geändert, beim Drehen geht das Tempo dann um 0,1 nach oben, aber wenn ich nach links drehe ist es genauso, es geht nur nach oben verständlicherweise, das Tempo müsste beim Drehen nach links nach unten gehn!

prinzipiell ginge das mit +/- auch, aber da dreht man sich ja irre!
du willst wirklich so fein einstellen? ich dachte eher an schnelle gröbere Änderungen.
aber ich versuch da auch noch was anderes...

[Bassman]

prinzipiell ginge das mit +/- auch, aber da dreht man sich ja irre!
du willst wirklich so fein einstellen? ich dachte eher an schnelle gröbere Änderungen.

Ne natürlich nicht, in 1 er Schritten, vielmehr brauch ich bis Tempo 72 3er Schritte und danach 4er , wie gewöhnlich, also 1er Schritte wären perfekt! Es gab nur kein x100, nur x10, deshalb die 0,1:)

[azslow3]

Hi All

Been thinking about how to get around split clips problem, could we use the Edit > Select > From = Now to set the beginning of the selection and then jog to the end and use Edit > Select > From = Thru to set the end? This will select the section of the clip then delete.
It shows keyboard short cuts to use these commands though I could not get them to work

As you have described, selecting some region in time is not a problem. But how to select the clip? "Select-from/thru" does not select it for me. But I do not think it will take long time till I implement "ClipEdit" action with CW API from VS-700.

The other problem with this idea is that the jog function does not update the now time even though it it moves the now line on the screen? (I am running an older version of AZ controller if this makes a difference)

Not sure I understand you. If I Jog somewhere and then use play, it starts playing from the point the time line is shown.

But if you mean clip editing operations, it looks like they use some other "edit now time" according to the "ClipEdit" API. What they do is a bit cryptic, even for me. But we will find the way.

Not sure if this is helpful or another dead end 

Thanks Stevie

There was many times I and other thought "the is a dead end...".  For example some way to detect which strip type (track or bus) is currently selected by user. And at some lucky moment the solution could be found (with that example, by a bug in my test code which was thought for different purpose) 

HI:)

@Alexey

Wow that's great!!! I deleted "Wait" and changed the Tempo per Key Num+ x10 (x100 possible?)

2) It takes some time to finish the operation, so there is a "Wait" timeout during which it is not possible to do tempo change. Unfortunately, at the moment it is not possible to "finish" the operation after. But for that I have already a plan (will also solve "timer based" operations, discussed before in this thread).

For me it works without wait and it finishes the function after the change!!!

I will add x100. Nice found! So it really change the tempo from the point it currently is!

With "Wait" is is no so easy... I have already noticed "side effects" in case it is not there, even in your modified "+-" version. When you turn encoder without that "protection", it send "+-" and "Enter" to other Sonar parts (currently in focus). May be on fast computer you can reduce that "dead time" timeout, but not to 0.

The Only  thing:

How to use Num- ?

You will need "Encoder direction" mapping (mapping from encoder value to 2 States ("Left"/"Right") Set ("Direction").
I attach an example with +- and the smallest "Wait" which still work fine (without side effects) for me.

[azslow3]

Ich hab dieses Wait gelöscht und den vorhandenen Wert mit Num+ x10 geändert, beim Drehen geht das Tempo dann um 0,1 nach oben, aber wenn ich nach links drehe ist es genauso, es geht nur nach oben verständlicherweise, das Tempo müsste beim Drehen nach links nach unten gehn!

prinzipiell ginge das mit +/- auch, aber da dreht man sich ja irre!
du willst wirklich so fein einstellen? ich dachte eher an schnelle gröbere Änderungen.
aber ich versuch da auch noch was anderes...

Rein theoretisch... Ich kann "Ctrl+C" machen, dann Windows Ablage als Zahl benutzen und so aktuelle Tempo erkennen...
Oder versuchen den Text von Windows aktuelle Steuerelement direkt abfragen 

[MarKo]

I attach an example with +- and the smallest "Wait" which still work fine (without side effects) for me.

That works quite good for me too!
What i don´t like so much is this flickering, because Sonar really updates tempo for every tick of the controller. Also i can see side effects when turning the knob really excessive.
Therefor i tried it like in attachement.
- so first open dialog and set state.
- while in the state "TempoDialog" use endless for Num+/-
- after timeout (knob don´t used for 1 sec) send enter

Too bad that keyboard-action is not allowed in feedback i had forgotten that again.
So currently i have to use a button to send the enter when finished.
But i think it would look nicer this way - also you can see the tempo-values, which is not easy with the flicker-dialog.
What do you both think?

@Alexey: i know you have reasons for limited feedback-actions, but is it much work to try it just with this keyboard action? i mean: are the other actions just "hidden" or do you have a lot of programming for just experimenting if this works?

[MarKo]

Therefor i tried it like in attachement.

ok, here now with attachement

[azslow3]

@Alexey: i know you have reasons for limited feedback-actions, but is it much work to try it just with this keyboard action? i mean: are the other actions just "hidden" or do you have a lot of programming for just experimenting if this works?

I can allow almost all actions in monitors and that is easy change. But what is there will be there (I mean the plug-in is backward compatible since the first version...). And I seriously dislike the idea, for explained reason (it is really too easy to hang sonar then, unattended, without any control touched, without any visualization, so extremely hard to debug... just to find that the preset creator has made the mistake and so it is a "feature" and not a bug. Do you think some small extra possibilities justify such scenario?

But as I wrote, I have an idea how to solve that in more elegant and safer way: the "Trigger" action. It will allow to do the same as "Play" button for the Action List with a possibility to control which value should be on input.

The differences/advantages between  "Timer once" monitor and "Trigger" will be:
1) "Trigger" will be executed in the Logic context, so with the same rules as normal control (all actions available)
2) The result is shown in the UI, like from "real" control operation. I can not show all Monitors executions, think about 100s of monitors executed 13 times per second... But when you see "Trigger"ed execution in a loop, you know you have a bug.
3) It keeps the logical complexity of "monitor preparation/execution environments" (which is already a rocket since for non programmers...) from growing.
4) Monitors are there for monitoring and not for "performing". Sonar API also distinguish between "Incoming event"  (when logical controls are called) and "Idle timer" (when monitors are called), that is good and has its reasons. I will execute the "Trigger" still in the "Idle timer", but from conceptual point of view it still looks consequent for me (unlike mixing different logical tasks into one "thing").

Sure, "Trigger" action will be available in the Monitors.

[Bassman]

Too bad that keyboard-action is not allowed in feedback i had forgotten that again.
So currently i have to use a button to send the enter when finished.
But i think it would look nicer this way - also you can see the tempo-values, which is not easy with the flicker-dialog.
What do you both think?

It is better to see what tempo it is, but what's with "Enter" ? When I add Key Enter, uuuuh

To which Rotator will you add this function?? do you really need two Jogs?? You need the Master R! there are not a lot possibilities....  Zoom and Position is to usefull, so ......don't know..

Heinz.

[Stevie]

@Martin

Hi Stevie,
please wait for the next version (hopefully today), i have this already working.
at least if you are doing it "backwards", like you said before.

Sounds good

@Alexey

As you have described, selecting some region in time is not a problem. But how to select the clip? "Select-from/thru" does not select it for me. But I do not think it will take long time till I implement "ClipEdit" action with CW API from VS-700.

I have found this method of using the keyboard to select in clips and move from one clip to another and seems to focus on the clip that is you can delete the selection

https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR&language=3&help=Arranging.64.html

Maybe helpful?

[MarKo]

Hi Stevie,

I have found this method of using the keyboard to select in clips...

That´s exacatly what i´m using.
But it was quite tricky to find a way of reliably selecting the *specific* clip!
i spent quite some time getting this to work in combination. But i think it´s ok now - you will see.

[Stevie]

Hi Martin

That´s exacatly what i´m using.
But it was quite tricky to find a way of reliably selecting the *specific* clip!
i spent quite some time getting this to work in combination. But i think it´s ok now - you will see.

You are one step ahead of me 

Trying my hardest to help where I can

Thanks again for your effort

[MarKo]

Hi Heinz,

It is better to see what tempo it is, but what's with "Enter" ? When I add Key Enter, uuuuh

it was just an example. as i said, we would need to use some button for enter at the moment.
i want to do this automatically per timeout, but thats currently not possible (but i think that Alexey already has a good plan for this).
i would prefer this 2nd solution because:
- no flickering and better to see the tempo
- it´s much faster if you have to make a big tempochange (no waits and no unnecessary work from Sonar)
- the Undo-History stays ok, which gets flodded with tempochanges otherwise

To which Rotator will you add this function?? do you really need two Jogs?? You need the Master R! there are not a lot possibilities....  Zoom and Position is to usefull, so ......don't know..

no need for the second Jog - it´s already gone.
i´m thinking about putting it on the "Pos" Knob, because it´s next to the buttons.
Switching with Shift+Pos to "TempoMode", then adjusting tempo with Pos, and when finished use e.g. Stop-button (it´s directly next) for Enter.

[Bassman]

no need for the second Jog - it´s already gone.
i´m thinking about putting it on the "Pos" Knob, because it´s next to the buttons.
Switching with Shift+Pos to "TempoMode", then adjusting tempo with Pos, and when finished use e.g. Stop-button (it´s directly next) for Enter.

Very good Idea:)

Sodele, seid mir nicht böse, aber ich begeb mich jetzt in den Mostkeller! Die Hitze ist nicht mehr zu ertragen:(
Ich komm erst wieder hoch, wenn ich nichts mehr spüre;) Ne Quatsch, die Reaktion meiner Frau würde ich nicht überleben:)
Aber ich bleib ne Weile...