Roland A-Pro with ACTfix & East West Play

[Rhenn]

Hi -
Experimenting with A-300Pro and various soft synths:  Got it working with Ivory and customized to my liking. Exited Sonar, ran ACTfix and clicked "Save & Exit". Now trying to get East West "Play" working.  ACT doesn't seem to respond. So I closed Sonar. Ran ACTfix. Cleared setting for "Play 3" in ACTfix. Restarted Sonar. Opened Play. Opened A-Pro properties window in Sonar. Clicked B3 "Synth Bank" button. Attempted to program ACT: Clicked ACT button in A-Pro properties app (button turns blue). Clicked slider in Play window. Moved slider on Apro. Clicked Blue button. NOTHING. Doesn't ask me to save assignments. (Also, sliders in Apro app don't move when I move physical sliders on Apro itself when B3 bank is selected. Faders DO move in B1 bank. ACT button is lit on unit.)
BTW, nothing happens when I click the tiny "down" arrow on any of the controllers in the Apro property window when the B3 Synths bank is selected. Hey, I just noticed when I right click the controllers themselves "Exclude sliders... from current bank" was selected.  Unselected and tried again... nah, still doesn't work.
I'll keep experimenting...
Any ideas?
Thanks!!!

[azslow3]

Before I forget... In case you use Sonar X3 or later, you probably will need to run ACTFix EVERY time you close Sonar in case you have "ACT Learned" something in that session. There is a nasty bug: if you have more then one surface (and you have 2), Sonar is not able to save ACT Dynamic Mapping correctly. Every time it tries to save it, it generates corrupted result... when it tries to read it, it can not... then saving what it could read so far, corrupting the file even more. In the very last ACT Fix I have tried to deal with that, but I had no opportunity to test that. In any case, even if my workaround works (otherwise ACT Fix will report that configuration is corrupted), you HAVE TO run it all the time after ACT learning.

Now back to what "ACT" means. ACT is "Advanced Controller Technology" in general, so any(!) controller in Sonar works throw ACT. By bad luck, CW has named some buttons related to "Plug-in Dynamic Mapping" also as "ACT". They had to call them "PDM" (Plug-in Dynamic Mapping) to avoid misunderstanding! But that was long time ago... so when you see somewhere "ACT" the meaning can be different: sometimes it is "using something as Sonar controller vs using it as simple MIDI", sometimes it is "switch from mixing mode to plug-in controlling mode", sometimes it is "learn plug-in parameters" (but normally you see "learn" somewhere in the near of ACT in this case). Confusing, no? 

Now to A-Pro. The documentation and the interface is... you already have the idea what  By cooking users head it can be compared with AZ Controller only, but AZ Controller can do miles more then this plug-in and with any controller. So it has at least a reason to be complicated.

Back to everything called "ACT" for A-Pro. I am not so sure what "ACT" button on the device mean, at least it should open controller preferences window (there is an "Options" button there, where you can ask "ACT" button NOT open that window). What it does (if at all) in addition, I leave you to find our... In the options window, you can see 2(!) "ACT"s. One is section, with "Enable" and "Lock" it is really "Dynamic Mapping"!. Select some FX in Sonar and press "Enable". You should see the plug-in name then (under "A-PRO" label). Press "Lock". When locked, even in case you select other FX in Sonar, A-Pro will still control "locked" one. Ok, now with "DM Enabled", press "B3" (Synth). NOW you should see some parameters from focused FX under knobs. Or you see EMPRY labels, in case there is no mapping... Locate ANOTHER "ACT" button, it is in the top right corner. Press it, it is "DM Learn" mode! Move some parameter in FX, more some knob. Press this button again. You should get assignment confirmation!

3 more notes, and you are "armed" to proceed:
1) if in "ACT Enabled" / "B3" mode you right click on knob, check that there is NO check near "Exclude Rotaries R1-R8 from ACT" (you can include/exclude R9 as you wish...). Read it as "Exlude Rotaries from DYNAMIC MAPPING".
2) in fact ALL B1-B4 modes are equivalent and user configurable, you can for example include all sliders into Dynamic Mapping in B1 (Tracks) mode.
3) you can assign buttons/pads to do "DM Enable"/"DM Lock"/"DM Learn". That is under "Surface commands"/"ACT Enable"/"ACT Lock"/"ACT Learn" in there menu (in case the button/pad is EXCLUDED "from DM in current bank".

I hope I could explain you that the whole confusion there comes from just 3 characters "A. C. T." which CW/Roland use for everything they could not find other words.

There is famous Russian old Sci-Fi movie - Kin-Dza-Dza. There are some aliens which can directly read minds of everyone in the near, they still speak with each other, but except several special words, all other words sound like "KU". In Cakewalk's vocabulary in respect to controllers, there are "Tracks", "Sounds", "Bottons", "Knobs", "Faders" and  ... "ACT" for everything else. Unfortunately not all users can read minds, and so immediately confused by: "Press ACT" (open Controller Preferences), "Press ACT" (to enable dynamic mapping), "Press ACT" (to start learning parameters), "Use ACT" (install controller plug-in), "Use ACT" (use plug-in dynamic mapping), etc.

[Rhenn]

NOW you should see some parameters from focused FX under knobs. Or you see EMPRY labels, in case there is no mapping... Locate ANOTHER "ACT" button, it is in the top right corner. Press it, it is "DM Learn" mode! Move some parameter in FX, more some knob. Press this button again. You should get assignment confirmation!

I did all that - but get no assignment confirmation. Usually. A couple times, I did. Crazy. Oh well. I basically give up on this. As you said...

The documentation and the interface is... you already have the idea what  

East West Play seems to especially confuse the Apro. I'm trying to control the three software faders for 3 different mic positions, but at most I could only get the Apro to control the main channel output.  Again, I give up. Unless...
You mentioned the AlphaTrack AZController option to select "ACT" mode would allow me to use the three AT rotaries to control software. Is there a way to incorporate that option into my setup without blowing up the other functions you have so expertly crafted?
(I also use Garritan Orchestra's "Aria" player. That does not appear in the ACTfix window. But it does show a lot of "[unknown]" plug-ins in the list. I had no luck assigning Apro controllers to Aria either.)
Do you know of a controller that works better than the Apro?
Thank again for your very patient replies and help!

[azslow3]

Plug-in Dynamic mapping is such a thing... Either it works on any device or it does not work at all.
A-Pro as a hardware is not different from alphatrack, MCU, VS-700, etc. Software part (Control Surface plug-in) is what make them different.

First the procedure to check either Dynamic mapping CAN work for some VST(i):
in the track with plug-in in question (Audio track), try to add some "Automation". Do you see plug-in in question in the list? Do you see parameter names you are interested there?
If the answer is "YES", we can get "Dynamic mapping" working for that plug-in.
If the answer in "NO", "Dynamic mapping" is not going to work with this plug-in, since it is using the same method as Automation lanes.

Even in case the answer is "NO", probably the plug-in accepts some "MIDI learn" or fixed MIDI CC control. And your A-Pro can do this, the same way as you control CC1 and CC11 from Alphatrack, but without loopback sicne A-Pro can be configured.
But first, in case at least SOME plug-ins in question have parameters in Automation you want, lets make Dynamic Mapping working for your A-Pro.

So, with ACT (dynamic mapping) enabled, B3 page.
a) do you see focused plug-in name in the A-PRO window?
b) do you see everything blank under knobs or there is something?
c) does that blank/something is changing when you focus different plug-ins?

Also with "unknowns"... Locate the folder with sonaract.xml inside your user directory (you should see "Backups" directory there, from AZ Fix) and remove ALL xml files you see there (keep "Backups" and everything inside unchanged).
Start sonar, and without "ACT Learning" anything, repeat the test (a),(b),(c).

[Rhenn]

Thanks to AZSlow University, my education continues! Much progress made. I now see that different VSTs have very different capabilities as far as "Dynamic Mapping" is concerned. East-West Play, for some reason, only allows control of a very odd and limited set of parameters. Oh well. Nothing to be done about that I suppose.
Garritan's Aria player has no AL button, and no automatable parameters. So I shall muddle along without them. I have followed all your suggestions, and things are much improved. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[azslow3]

I have not found an answer in documentation for East-West, and I have not found and demo-test version of it. The question is about "MIDI learn" support. Can you do this with parameters you want, also in Aria?
If not and automation is not supported either, there is not much we can do.
If MIDI learn is supported (or these parameters fixed to some CC numbers, julst like CC1 and CC11), we can think how to control them. A-PRO original plug-in support temporary switching Pads into "MIDI" mode, but not for knobs and faders. AZ Controller with the trick you already know can send whatever you need, but there is no A-Pro preset for it (yet). Quick way can be add more "CC" numbers for the fader, that is just several seconds modification.