RA Micro4k Plugin Controller - iCON p1-M/X DAW Controller - ACTing as One!!!

[minminmusic]

Been talking with Heinz and Alexey over at the Cakewalk Forums and they thought it would be more helpful if we moved the conversation here.

Heinz is helping me to try and get my new RA Micro4k Plugin Controller and my  iCON P1-M/X DAW Controllers to somewhat "ACT" as one unit. Similar in fashion to the SSL U series (on a budget.)

I'm going to post below the start of our conversation, introduce the players and what I'm hoping to achieve. Heinz can then jump in the next post and we can start to work through what's necessary (as well as Alexey and anyone else would like to jump into the discussion!!!) In working with Heinz, I'm hoping to see if a preset for the AZController app can be set up to somewhat integrate these two separate controllers but also to learn from the community in case I need to tweak in the future. I know there are some users of the iCON series controllers on the Cakewalk forums so this information might be a positive contribution for all. Lastly...if we can get the Micro4k to work with the iCON in this fashion...it's a great, cost effective controller solution for those who would like their workflow to behave more like a tactile console controller.

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iCON P1-M Midi Controller:I have an iCON P1-M / P1-X system. More or less working well (within the limitations of the MCU protocol). https://iconproaudio.com/product/p1-m/   Not perfect but not bad either.

Most of it works though the MCU Protocol but there are some quirks. Since it maps to multiple DAWS with the touch of a button, I can get a sense of what is mapped correctly in Sonar and what is having problems based on how it behaves in LUNA or Reaper (how I have it currently set up.) It uses iCON's iMAP software that acts as a "go-between" between the controller and your DAW and needs to run in the Windows system tray.

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Rocksolid Audio Micro4k Midi Controller:
I also just picked up a Rocksolid Audio Micro4k midi controller that's made to function in a similar fashion to the SSL Console controls. https://rocksolidaudioltd.com/products/micro-4k?srsltid=AfmBOor-xNRuJWFG_7ukFznSuS3f45OzteU-7kF144i2Zoh5R91IYIGI)

Rocksolid released a wrapper plug-in that wraps the plug-ins you point it towards and makes the mapping similar to ACT within the wrapped plug-in. You can make your own mappings or download pre-configured plug-in maps. The wrapper works "ok'ish" but the Windows version is not ready for prime-time yet. A couple of differences but the main one is a mini focus window that stays on top of your DAW and shows which RA plug-in is in focus. Very convenient. Works on MAC but the Windows version doesn't do this yet.

In addition, RA has a similar "mapping" application to iCON called RA Control that runs in the system tray. I'm going to say it's a app that parses the data coming from the Micro4k controller and can spit out what's necessary for the DAWs to work correctly with it. That could be HOST mode that works with the RA VST3 plugin, MOUSE mode that works similar but the controller also spits out MIDI date and can be just run as a MIDI controller. This is where my head is going with this project.

Right now...I can load an instance of the bx_console SSL 4000 plug-in and with just using basic ACT (and having set up the Micro4k as an ACT Controller)...I can reassign the first rotary encoder of the Micro4k to the Input Gain (as it is on the hardware controller) and turning it adjusts the Input Gain in the plug-in. Additionally, because the iCON P1-M communicates bi-directionally, I can see the Input Gain values move at the same time as the when I turn the knob on the Micro4k. While nowhere near smooth...it appears to start behaving in a similar fashion to that new SSL Controller eco-system or something along the lines of a cobbled together Softube Console 1 concept.

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On the iCON, when  I press the SEL on Channel Strip 1...it brings the focus to that track in Cakewalk. I press the Plug-In key on the iCON and it will bring up the first plug-in in the FX bin. Press SEL on Channel Strip 2...and it shifts focus in Cakewalk to Track 2 etc. Works as expected.

Since we can't do it with RA's wrapper...would it be possible to load two instances of the bx SSL plug-in on channels 1 and 2 and by clicking on the appropriate SEL button on the iCON to shift focus...have the Micro4k follow along so that it controls the parameters on the particular first plugin in focus. With the iCON, the bx SSL would always have to be first in my FX chain. I think this is down more to how Cakewalk has implemented some of the MCU protocol as when I use UA's LUNA with the iCON, once I hit the Plug-in button, I can scroll through multiple plugins loaded in it's FX rack by hitting the bank buttons. Cakewalk does not allow this.

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So that's the start of the discussion and parts of the conversation I've had with Heinz and Alexey. Let's see what Heinz thinks is the next first step and we can draw up a list of what I need to pull. The RA Control in MIDI MAPPING mode can pull all the MIDI values from the controller (or can reassign if we deem necessary if there's a conflict. I'd imagine first steps are getting a handle on that and getting that to work properly with Cakewalk before pushing it to step two and have the Micro4k work a little closer with the iCON.

Included a jpeg of the Micro4k controller next to my P1-X extender. The P1-M is out of the picture frame just to the right.

Have a great weekend!!!-Christopher

[azslow3]

For  "tuning" iCON. Here is MIDI messages map with Cakewalk labels for MCU. Consult Mackie plug-in documentation what buttons and combinations mean. F.e. it is possible to navigate throw plug-ins, but in "Edit" mode and with M1+Channels (according to the documentation). https://www.azslow.com/files/mcu.png

For Micro4k, I attach a test preset for 4 encoders. If you are going to work with AZController, you need to learn how to use it 
Since I don't have bx_console SSL, you will need to modify "FX" Actions (in the Logic tab) to select parameters you want (in the example are random parameters from bc_console Focusrite).
And then you need to "learn" encoders (in the Hardware tab).
I strongly recommend to watch "Startup preset" video (link and description in https://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,154.0.html ) if you have not done that yet. At least you will learn how to install AZ Controller and "learn" encoders. To modify Actions, check https://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,9.0.html.

BTW once you manage to use 4 encoders, using "Dup" button on the Options Tab with "Knob 4" selected will allow you setup 24 encoders in several minutes.

All that is just a test.

PS. just in case you wonder how long it takes (for me) to create preset I have attached - 1-2 minutes

[minminmusic]

Cool...thank you Alexey. I will check this out in a moment.

While I'll wait for Heinz to pop in...I've exported two screenshots of the Rocksolid Audio RA Control application and the MIDI mapper screen. This is what pulls up as default for the MIDI settings for the Micro4k. This probably will help in terms of what RA defines as each encoder and button and their values. I'd ignore the rest for the moment outside of midi channel as the rest are already pre-mapped in terms of Type, Direction and Toggle and this app also allows for sensitivity adjustment for each encoders responsiveness.

[minminmusic]

RA Control - MIDI Mode - Micro4k Encoders and Buttons

[minminmusic]

Actually...ignore the VALUE for now. I realize I accidentally changes some of them from the stock values in the Micro4k. Their app is super sensitive and I had to scroll to capture the full range in the pictures for both categorizes. Unfortunately, if your mouse is over the value when you scroll it moves the number. I didn't catch until I was just experimenting with modifying Alexey's preset.

Names are correct. Values of Encoders run 1 - 20 and the buttons run 21 - 46.

Currently practicing trying to make a basic AZ Controller Micro4k profile.

[minminmusic]

Ok...my first pass. Don't know if anyone can give a look but I mapped it identical to the order in the RA Control MIDI Mapper. I then set the preset in AZ Controller so it has the identical mapping functions as RA's mapping for the bx_console SSL.

When I started building, I put them in the order that was on RA's list in the Options tab which carried over to Hardware but by the time I got to Logic and the Logical Control pull down windows something got knocked off with the order. If that can be fixed great. Not that it super matters but would have been easier to map if it stayed in the order I input them. I'm certain I did something to mess that up.

In any event though...it's working so maybe if this is good or needs to be cleaned up a little...it can be a first step?

[azslow3]

Controls order in AZController is traditionally can't be changed... I know that is not optimal. For myself, I am trying to keep it correct in presets ("Dup" insert after duplicated, "Add" - put on top of the list).

The preset looks fine for me, but it is up to you to decide if it works. Note I set "0.4% per tick" option for Value randomly, try to change it to find the speed you like.

On screenshots I see some "Absolute" for encoders and "Toggle" for buttons. Normally (for AZ Controller) all encoders should be "Relative" and all buttons "Momentary". But the preset can't work correctly if mode for control is not correct, so if it works, I probably don't understand the meaning of these lists.

[minminmusic]

Yeah...that's how I did it. Once I had set up a basic encoder, I duplicated as many times as I needed. Did the same for the buttons. Also did the same in the Logic tab. Once the basics were set up, copy and pasted and just changed the variables per entry.

As for your second and third sentence...they are tied together I think? I'm guessing the "0.4%" is the sensitivity adjustment within AZ Controller for the adjustment of the parameters. But...much of what your are seeing in RA Control's MIDI Mapping software beyond the MIDI values are speed and sensitivity adjustments. Now...I'm not totally sure the Micro4k can run with Cakewalk without having started RA Control first...THEN Cakewalk. In the system tray it states RA Control is connected to the controller. If that's true...then maybe the sensitivity adjustments in AZ Controller should be set to the most neutral and the fine tuning can be done in the RA MIDI Mapper?

The only issue I can see that you and Heinz should be aware of...in the RA MIDI Mapper you can see the default assigned MIDI values by RA. I built the AZ Controller presets based on those values. Now...I load a new Sonar project. 16 tracks. Both the iCON and Micro4k are working. Track 1, I insert a bx_console SSL into the first position in the FX bin. No other plugins in an FX bins.

I press, SEL on Track 1. Track 1 is on focus. I press Plug-In on the iCON and it brings up the SSL plug-in. I press SEL on Track 2. Track 2 is now selected and I press Plug-in and no plug-ins come up for track 2. Working as expected.

Back to track 1 with SEL pressed and Plug-in button pressed bringing the SSL plug-in into focus. The Micro4k is controlling the SSL. Now I don't know if it matters unless there's a numerical conflict...but INPUT on the Micro4k is set to CC1. That is mapped to the INPUT GAIN in the plug-in. Turning it works. BUT INPUT GAIN on the iCON shows up in display window 4 (track 4) and that encoder CC value is 19. Turning the encoder on the Micro4k adjusts the plug-in but also the iCON is receiving MIDI from Cakewalk and is showing controls for Input Gain moving (so two different encoders, from two different controllers with two different MIDI values controlling the same function. Do you see that being an issue?

There is a slight bug with the iCON controller and iMAP not allowing scrolling of the plug-in parameters in the display windows...but let's handle one thing at a time. The plus is that for the first 16 display windows on the iCON...I can see parameters that I wouldn't be able to fully map to the Micro4k due to lack of encoders. At that point...if I'm just trying to set up the basics of a console, with some EQs, comp-gates and filters...that deep dive stuff in the bx_console would slowdown that workflow process anyhow.

[azslow3]

As for your second and third sentence...they are tied together I think? I'm guessing the "0.4%" is the sensitivity adjustment within AZ Controller for the adjustment of the parameters. But...much of what your are seeing in RA Control's MIDI Mapping software beyond the MIDI values are speed and sensitivity adjustments. Now...I'm not totally sure the Micro4k can run with Cakewalk without having started RA Control first...THEN Cakewalk. In the system tray it states RA Control is connected to the controller. If that's true...then maybe the sensitivity adjustments in AZ Controller should be set to the most neutral and the fine tuning can be done in the RA MIDI Mapper?

No, better find out how to make this "RA" just send what hardware controller sends, without any "manipulations". I mean hardware "tick" should be sent to AZ Controller.

Back to track 1 with SEL pressed and Plug-in button pressed bringing the SSL plug-in into focus. The Micro4k is controlling the SSL. Now I don't know if it matters unless there's a numerical conflict...but INPUT on the Micro4k is set to CC1. That is mapped to the INPUT GAIN in the plug-in. Turning it works. BUT INPUT GAIN on the iCON shows up in display window 4 (track 4) and that encoder CC value is 19. Turning the encoder on the Micro4k adjusts the plug-in but also the iCON is receiving MIDI from Cakewalk and is showing controls for Input Gain moving (so two different encoders, from two different controllers with two different MIDI values controlling the same function. Do you see that being an issue?

That is not a problem, that is how it works. "MIDI" is used just as transport in your current setup. Micro4k is NOT MIDI controller (that is why you need this "RA" thing...), and MIDI never reach bx_console nor anything else in Cakewalk (it is "consumed" by AZ Controller and Mackie). You can have 2,3,10,etc. controls on the same or different controllers for the same parameter. And you can have 2,3,10,etc. different parameters controlled by the same control (obviously only one at any particular time, you just need some buttons to "switch" modes, as you do with iCON).

[minminmusic]

No, better find out how to make this "RA" just send what hardware controller sends, without any "manipulations". I mean hardware "tick" should be sent to AZ Controller.
Probably best to leave the RA Control MIDI settings at their stock value and leave the encoders mapped in AZCon at 0.4% as a starting point? They seem to work pretty "fluidly" right now and when I turned the encoder on the iCON for the same plug-in parameter, the iCON encoder seemed way more sluggish. I'm not really concerned with how the iCON encoders react for this scenario.

[azslow3]

Probably default RA Control MIDI settings are ok (as long as "relative").

And you do NOT HAVE TO change 0.4%, I just have mentioned you can. I set the value "from the sky"    I use significantly different settings for X-Touch and M-32, since encoders are different.

[minminmusic]

OK...SUPER INTERESTING!!!

So I took what I built last night and opened up a new Sonar track. Loaded a bx_console, first position in the FX Bin on the audio track. I then duplicated that 47 times for a 48 channel console. Opened up a couple of the bx_consoles based on the track number. 1, 9, 25, 48. I pressed the corresponding SEL key on the iCON and guess what?!?

IT WORKED!!!!!!!!!

That is so awesome!!!!! By the time I got done mapping the Micro4k with the AZ Controller app I didn't really have time to test on a wider scale basis. VERY VERY COOL!!!

I guess I save that as a preset within AZ Controller (Micro4k - bx Console SSL 4000) then can rename that preset again and begin mapping my next plug-in? Is there a bulk way to wipe all the Logical Controls associations?

[azslow3]

There is complete preset reset (in the Options tab). Otherwise "cleaning" is not user friendly.

But you don't have to clean in case you just want prepare preset for another console FX, just replace FX Action option.

BTW what you mean by "mapping my next plug-in"?

If, for example, you on one track use "bx_console SSL 4000 E" and on different track you use "bx_console SSL 4000 G" (but not both on the same track), you can have one AZController preset for both (3,4, etc. cases). You can "explain" AZController to use what is current on current track.

If in all plug-ins the position of parameter you want control is the same (may be the case for bx_consoles), you can select "<any>" instead of "bx_console ..". If parameter position is different, you need explicit record for each plug-in, duplicating "FX" Action and setting "Action Condition" "Last Action: Failed" for all except the first. Or combination. So:

• Strip <Track> <Current>
• FX "bx_console SSL 4000 E" Parameter 1
• "Last Action: Failed" FX "bx_console SSL 4000 G" Parameter 5
• "Last Action: Failed" FX "<some other FX>" Parameter 10
• "Last Action: Failed" FX "<any>" Parameter 3
• Value Endless

The last "FX" is a "fall-back", it will control parameter 3 in case no explicitly mentioned FXes found (really what iCON does till you define mapping for particular FX).

[Bassman]

HI:)

I have time now for other things, but as I can see my help is not needed at the moment and the preset is growing on.....

So I'm reading the Thread and just let me know if I can help.

Greetz;)
Bassman.

[minminmusic]

• Strip <Track> <Current>
• FX "bx_console SSL 4000 E" Parameter 1
• "Last Action: Failed" FX "bx_console SSL 4000 G" Parameter 5
• "Last Action: Failed" FX "<some other FX>" Parameter 10
• "Last Action: Failed" FX "<any>" Parameter 3
• Value Endless

SO...you could build every single SSL style plugin I currently have into this same preset so everything is more or less mapped the same and it will know if it doesn't sense one, it'll try for the next version "mapped out"?

I was meaning more for building a new "PRESET" for NON-SSL style plug-ins (I'm really intrigued by the new Metric Halo MBSI console plug-in.)

I'm guessing maybe it could make sense to have one for SSL and one for not...OR...build them all into the same "Micro4k" preset? Ultimately I'd love to get it to the point where I can fiddle with a know and NOT look at the screen and be confident that the adjustments are being made on the specific track I SEL'd on the iCON.