AZSlow

Hi all,

Ok, it was very hot - but here is the next step forward with the BCR2000 preset.

Still some things to do, but many of the last ideas are implemented.
Additionally, some things are re-arranged, so please take a closer look at the included screenshot.
I tried to make the modes/functions understandable by different colors:
White labels ON the knobs are for 8Track-mode.
Colored labels below the knobs are for ProChannel-mode. Some have a second function with shift.
For all global buttons on the right: Labels in Blue are Shift-functions, and Green are Ctrl-functions.
Labels with a * mean that this state is shown by the LED.
Labels with two ** mean that this state is shown by blinking LED.
I hope you get it from the picture, except one knob (ACT), all should be labeled correctly.

Major improvements:

• "sticky mode" with timeout (2 sec) for Shift/Ctrl, so you can press buttons one after another.
• top row LED-rings can be toggled between VOL/VU
• Speed-Dial for almost all Sonar-Controls (+/-)
• Split & Cut Clips from BCR:
  for now this is done by keyboard-simulation (until implemented in AZ), so may not always be reliable.
  for me it´s working 100% reliable if i first: select the track, maximize it, and then click with mouse on any clip (this has to be done only ONCE for the track you work on).
  Because the actions are split into 2 parts for button press/release, it´s also better not to release it too fast!
  therfor these commands only work with the Ctrl-button held down (no sticky mode here).
  the same also for:
• Gain Commands +/- 1/3 dB
  note: i removed some unwanted dB-presets in the Gain-dialog (0,5) so you will have todo either the same, or just edit the number key Up/downs in the function f_Gain.
  And of course you can extend the concept to more gain-stages (Mode:Gain).
• Tempo changing by Knob R8:
  press Ctrl, then within the timeout (2 sec) touch the Knob (next to stop) and you are in Tempo-mode.
  When finished with tempo-changes, press Stop to close the Tempo-Window.
  
• Jog/Scrub-Changes:
  Default is now Jog (without Scrubbing), this is better for selection.
  Scrub-Mode can be toggled On/Off with Ctrl+Jog
• Escape-function:
  switches the BCR to preset nr. 2, so the BCR can be used with other gear.
  No need to send Prgm-Changes or the like.

some more additions, which i don´t remeber...

The attachement must be renamed to ZIP and consists of:
- Preset for BCR (SysEx) - this has not changed from Beta2, no need to load that again!
- the new Preset for AzCtrl BCR2000_beta3
- Higher Resolution Picture
Note: You need at least AZCtrl version 0.4r1b250 for this preset

First time users should read the threads to Beta1+2 for installing and additional infos.

Hope it works for you and as always, feedback is welcome.

martin (MarKo).

Hi, I see you again have spend quite some time with plug-in... and so did I  ;)

On note, especially in case you use test version to create presets, it make sense to indicate since which plug-in version the preset is working. Something like: Note: for AZCtrl 0.4r1b253 and newer. The plug-in is (should be...) always backward compatible, so we hopefully do not need "till" version.

My changes:
1) The number of possible repeats for Key is increased to 100.
2) "Trigger" operation support (see http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,222.0.html). I have remembered the need for "loop back" of MIDI, it is handy when preparing presets for devices I do not have (which is usual) so I can Assign events and/or test the reaction on specific input values (not possible with "Play" button and especially required for testing "Note:OFF" actions). And since that can be used for delayed operations, I have made the decision to go this way instead of introducing yet another Action type which technically does exactly the same thing.

QuoteI see you again have spend quite some time with plug-in

yes, but i´m coming closer to a version that we could call stable and "ready to use".
i´ll wait for Stevies and Heinz´ feedback and try to finish the last ideas (still some...)

Quoteit make sense to indicate since which plug-in version

thanks for the reminder, and done. i had it just forgotten!

I´ll look at your changes during the week, i´m sure i will use triggers!

And we could check the compressor-types (screenshot).
I think there is something strange with my System (X3e).
Shouldn´t the comp-types be listed in the Filter-combo?
In the list of filters, i have only <other> which acts a little strange.
I found by trial that this is the compressor, and at the beginning it was working for PC76 U. Then i switched to PC4K S and it was working too! (except the 2 additional params).
Next day after opening project, none of them was working, except the first 2 params.
But if i switch types again 2 times, everything works again for BOTH types!
Do you have an explanation?
So i can not use your suggestion with first selecting one type, and check with <selection:invalid> to use other type.

Hi:)

Ich hab leider die Woche eine harte Woche. Weil ein Probenwochenende ansteht, muss ich mich darauf vorbereiten und ca. 30 Songs einstudieren, aber ich hoffe, dass ich ein wenig Zeit finde das Ganze zu testen...
Auf jeden Fall vielen Dank und bitte nicht böse sein, wenn ich mich ein paar Tage nicht melde, hab die Noten noch nicht gesehn, aber manchmal hat's schon Hämmer dabei:)

Bis denne,
Heinz.

Quote from: MarKo on July 06, 2015, 02:30:43 PM
And we could check the compressor-types (screenshot).
I think there is something strange with my System (X3e).
Shouldn´t the comp-types be listed in the Filter-combo?
In the list of filters, i have only <other> which acts a little strange.
I found by trial that this is the compressor, and at the beginning it was working for PC76 U. Then i switched to PC4K S and it was working too! (except the 2 additional params).
Next day after opening project, none of them was working, except the first 2 params.
But if i switch types again 2 times, everything works again for BOTH types!
Do you have an explanation?
So i can not use your suggestion with first selecting one type, and check with <selection:invalid> to use other type.

No, "<other>" is not the way to go... We should get PC76U and PC4K explicitly. I have to check at home with SPlat and X3. I do not remember with which versions I have developed it, may be it was X1/X2 (in rare occasion I use PC for my needs, I use ACT, so I have not spotted the problem myself).

CW does not make the life "easy". Not only they do not return PC module name, they also change module parameter names between versions! For PC4K I have already as the last parameter: "Sidechain HP Frequency" (for X2) and "S/C HP Freq" (some other X version). My guess is that X3 has something else or may be the number of parameter is changed. I will check and fix the code.

EQ, Comp and Saturation CAN be found different way, not that the way is used by any plug-in. But if with EQ there is no variants, Compressors have different types. And this other "way" just indicate that let say "module 3 is a compressor", but not which type this compressor is. And so, I still have to somehow detect it.

Another observation. Sometime Sonar indicates PC modules with all parameter, even if the module is off. But sometimes it return only one parameter, "On/Off" till the module is switched on. In this case, there is no way to guess which module it is, till may be using that "other way". Still, without type. I guess periodically reported strange PC related bugs on project saving/loading are somehow have roots in that origin. Also ACT mapping is "broken" from time to time, till some "magic" project reloads.

In general, to reliable control some PC module, it should be switched On by mouse and the project is saved. What I mean, in case I can control some PC module in particular project, I can control it later. But getting in under control the first time is a bit unstable.

Alexey, could it be that this has to do with localisation???
In attached screenshot you see params of PC76U.
You might notice that german "Umlauts" are garbled.
I didn´t mention that, because i always thought there is something not fully unicode-aware inside Sonar (i see the same garbled names in ACT).
But as it seems you are using those names - right?

I would have no problem switching my sonar to english if there is an easy way (do you know?). In fact i would prefer it now, because german translations are really strange in some places. But for users working with other languages, this could be a problem.

Yes! That is it. Switching to English means sonar re-installation...

Can you write me the LAST parameter name of each ProChannel?
In the track view, from "Clips" drop box (of the track, not menu) select "Automation-><some module>". The last parameter is what I need.

I am not sure about Sonar in general, but Control Surface API is not unicode-aware. They transfer all text information as ASCII. Theoretically, they can support some multibyte encoding. But practically they either do not do this or do this incorrectly.

Hi Alexey,

if you can fix this by just adding localized names, then i´ll stay with german version.
I don´t want to reinstall, and i think it could help in similar cases - to check there are no language-specific issues.

So here is the very short list:
PC76U: Effektanteil
PC4K: SC-HP-Frequenz
Tube: Ausgang

All others (EQ,CE, Sat, Tape and Breverb2) are obviously not translated, so that´s the reason they have been working ever without problems!

There are no Umlauts in exactly these "last" Params, so maybe it doesn´t matter, but other names look ugly different between Sonar-UI and API:
Röhrensättigung für Spur -> R*hrens*ttigung für Spur (what a name :o that´s why i considered switching to english)
The first (correct) is from Sonar-UI (Clips-Automation as you said), the garbled text is from API.
I´m sure because i know these garbled umlauts since ever from every Plugin i tried (that´s why i didn´t mention), and i checked now again: even Sonars own ACT-controller displays exactly the same garbled umlaut.
Hope this helps.

I will add that to the plug-in and that should work. It does not matter which characters are inside, I just need exact string as returned by Sonar  ;)
"Native" Sonar plug-ins are using the same API. And from what I understand, they are not Unicode aware even internally. AZCtrl is Unicode base. I have not checked, may be what sonar send is UTF-8, but the probability is close to zero.

Quotemay be what sonar send is UTF-8, but the probability is close to zero

i think it IS zero, otherwise they would differ in length.

HI:)

Ok, hab doch mal interessehalber schnell mal reingekuckt: ein paar Sachen, hab noch nicht alles getestet!

Track Gain 1 springt beim anfassen auf -4.9, die anderen Regler sind normal!

Bottom Row:

Master hab ich wieder auf Bus Master gestellt, kein Problem:)
Mit dem 2. Regler kann ich jetzt gar nichts anfangen, es flackert nur, sollte wohl Gain sein....auch nicht mit Ctrl oder Shift!
Der 3. Regler ist derselbe Zoom wie der 4. Regler, die restlichen gehen alle wie beschrieben.

Weiss nicht wann ich weitertesten kann, aber das war's mal auf die Schnelle....

Heinz.

Quote from: MarKo on July 06, 2015, 11:34:50 PM
So here is the very short list:
PC76U: Effektanteil
PC4K: SC-HP-Frequenz
Tube: Ausgang

Should work in b254.

Hi Heinz,

Du meinst den Regler +/- ?
Das ist das SpeedDial: klick mal auf irgendein Sonar-Control (nicht PlugIn), also zb. alles im Inspektor/Mischpultansicht, aber auch die ganzen MIDI-werte wie Programm, Kanal usw...
Nachdem ein Regler angeklickt ist, kannst du mit R2(+/-) den Wert ändern.
Und R3 kommt erst.
Hast das Tempo schon probiert? Gut so?

QuoteShould work in b254.

Thank you!
i can´t wait - i hope i can try it in the evening.

Hi nochmal:)

Ansonsten sieht es so aus, als ob alles geht!! Das Konzept ist klasse!!!
Der Gain Regler Nr. 1 geht jetzt plötzlich, aber nach vielem rumprobieren ging das Ganze sehr hakelig....nach Neustart von Sonar läuft's jetzt wieder normal....

Gain +/- geht aber trotzdem nicht, Quatsch, jetzt seh ich das erst!!!!  Liegt ja auf den Buttons.....sorry!

alsdo -dB geht, + auch, aber der Fokus springt 8 Spuren weiter, bei dreimaligem Drücken um 24 Spuren.

Bis denne, melde mich DO wieder, morgen hab ich keine Minute frei:(

Heinz.

Hi Heinz,

Das Programm selbst ist ziemlich kompliziert und es gibt nicht viele Beta Testers. Die Fehler sind irgendwo drin, da bin ich sicher. Aber in Alleingang kann ich die nicht finden, deswegen bei alles ungewöhnliches bitte genau beschreiben. Was ich reproduzieren kann wird gefixed.

Alexey.

Quote from: azslow3 on July 07, 2015, 11:30:19 AM

Quote from: MarKo on July 06, 2015, 11:34:50 PM
So here is the very short list:
PC76U: Effektanteil
PC4K: SC-HP-Frequenz
Tube: Ausgang

Should work in b254.

I couldn´t resist, and installed it now, although i´m not at the BCR currently.
But so far all filters and params show up correctly!
So, this seems to work - thank you!

Some more infos/questions for Stevie & Heinz:
how do the level-meters react on your systems?
do you feel that they are too slow?

I forgot to mention that, but i found out something interesting.
You might want to read up here: http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,197.0.html
In short: the levels reported to plugins use the settings from preferences/level-meters/release-time.
My release time for meters was default at 1000 ms! 1 sec! much too slow.
So i lowered till 100ms, but now i find 200ms quite ok.
And now the meters shown on the BCR feel like "real" ones!

i would be interested how this is on other systems.

Hi Alexey:)

Quote
do you feel that they are too slow?

No, it's how it should be, fast!

@MarKo

Jetzt hab ich es geschnallt mit dem +/- Regler, das ist prima, weil ich ziemlich oft den Inspector verwende und da meistens Velocity, sehr schön:)

Das mit dem Tempo funzt auch sehr prima, mir hat zwar die Version von Alexey besser gefallen, weil es halt schneller ging, aber das ist so komfortabler, wie oft kommt man sonst an irgendwelche Regler und merkt es gar nicht......ist schon gut so!

Jetzt hab ich nur noch diesen Jump, wenn ich +/- dB mehrmals drücke, gestern waren es manchmal 24 Spuren PgDn, nicht den Fokus wie ich gestern gesagt habe....allerdings merke ich gerade, dass ich den Sprung nicht exakt reproduzieren kann, manchmal springt es manchmal nicht, hängt glaube ich mit der Geschwindigkeit zusammen wie schnell ich die Tasten drücke....

Oki, muss eigentlich schon längst wieder arbeiten.....

Eins noch, beim Fokus auf dem ProChannel im EQ kann ich wunderschön die Frequenz auswählen, wenn ich aber z.B. versuche im ACT Mode im Sonitus FX EQ die Frequenz einzustellen, springt er jeweils um ca. 170 Herz, müsste man dann im ACT Mode die Regler auch hochauflösend einstellen??

Danke und bis denne:)
Heinz.

Sorry to say, but I give up with clip editing for the moment...

ALL my attempts to find a way to predictable select a clip on FOCUSED strip have failed. Let me explain in details (that is also true for Num keyboard, CW has just exposed the calls they are using for these keys for Control Surface).
1) all clip edit/select operations are using so called DataCursor. So, the whole problem is to set it predictable.
2) unfortunately, its so called "vertical" position (on which track/folder it currently is) is NOT controllable. The only predictable place where you can ask it to be is THE CENTER OF THE WINDOW. If you do not do this, its initial position is kind of "random". It depends on other parameters and in general is going to be either on the first or on the last currently visible track IN THE WINDOW.
3) the "center" is really GRAPHICAL center of the window. In case you slightly zoom some track, it can be changed
4) my last and the only "close to successful" attempt was put it "somewhere" (does not matter where) and then "move it up 1000 times". So it is on the first track and them "move it down <current strip number> times". That is working fine (and fast, there is no redrawing in between), but... that stop working once you have folders. This DataCursor can be on a Folder! Not that it can do something useful there, it will not even select "all foldered clips" when used. But it can be there, and that breaks "move down" counter (Folders are not visible from Control Surfaces).

Generalizing this and other observations: everything CakeWalk has written since ~SONAR 6 time is bad from programming point of view (what I can see in API and its description, so not only Control Surface related part). Everything they have written starting X serie time is a garbage from programming point of view. Everything they have recently (re)written is an "epic fail" from programming point of view (CCC and RP, second year IT student should not pass Windows programming exam in case he/she does such mistakes). I really have worries where all that goes...

Hi Heinz,

Quote from: Bassman on July 08, 2015, 08:38:42 AM
Hi Alexey:)

Quote
do you feel that they are too slow?

No, it's how it should be, fast!

ich glaub da hast du dich verlesen - das hatte ich geschrieben ;)
egal, mich würde interessieren wie deine Voreinstellungen waren (siehe screenshot).

+/- Regler: ich finde den auch super, auch der ganze Arpeggiator lässt sich einstellen, oder Programmwechsel - eben fast alles.

Zum Tempo: das zusätzliche bestätigen mit "Stop" kann ich jetzt hoffentlich eliminieren (trigger), dann stell ich es mir ideal vor.

QuoteJetzt hab ich nur noch diesen Jump, wenn ich +/- dB mehrmals drücke

das hab zwar noch nicht bemerkt, aber ich könnte mir vorstellen wie es passiert.
in dem Fall hat er dann wohl keine (oder eine falsche) Gain-stufe genommen, oder was passiert stattdessen?
ich glaub aber auch das sich das mit einer kleinen Verzögerung lösen lässt.

QuoteACT Mode im Sonitus FX EQ die Frequenz einzustellen, springt er jeweils um ca. 170 Herz

das schau ich mir noch an.

QuoteOki, muss eigentlich schon längst wieder arbeiten.....

na dann üb mal fleissig weiter ;)

ich hab leider auch viel anderes zu tun, obwohl ich am liebsten da dran bleiben würde.
mir bleibt dann meistens nur nächtens über für die Hobbys.

Quote from: azslow3 on July 08, 2015, 12:54:43 PM
Sorry to say, but I give up with clip editing for the moment...
ALL my attempts to find a way to predictable select a clip on FOCUSED strip have failed.
....

i know what you mean, i saw the same unpredictable behaviour.

But in one of my last posts, i described how it works reliable for me -
but only if we take care that we have the neccessary initial scenario!
The Track must be maximized, and one clip must be selected.
That is not so bad for me, because when doing this kind of editing, then i usually maximize it anyway.
And IF it fails, then only the first time, which you can quickly undo.
If you then work throughout the whole track, it´s really ok, i have gone through quite some tracks from start to end, cutting silent parts.

But i needed quite some time to bring this "selection cursor" to the now-time.
Perhaps you have also seen that the horizontal position is independent from NOW, and also not really predictable.
But for this, i found a nice workaround:
1. center now time in view (command)
2. center edit cursor (0,5)
the complete numkey-list for clip-selection: 0,5,3,9,0

Did you try it with my preset?
you just need to assign 2 buttons: Ctrl and WAI left.
and maybe something to move the now-time - don´t need to explain that ;)
Now take care about initial view (maximize + select one clip), hold Ctrl and press WAI left.
it should be split exactly at the now time.
i´d be interested if this works on other systems too.
the only part which is currently not fully reliable, is that you better press/release slowly - Sonar needs a little time to really move. That´s why i split the actions in two parts for NoteON/OFF. But that should be solveable with triggers now (thanks for that).

Quote
Everything they have recently (re)written is an "epic fail" from programming point of view (CCC and RP, second year IT student should not pass Windows programming exam in case he/she does such mistakes). I really have worries where all that goes...

yes, i have similar worries, although i wouldn´t say it so extreme.
That´s also the reason why i avoid the OF - too much bad comments.
And currently i have no plan to go to Platinum-subscription, although there may be nice additions too.

I have understood your solution. I have also understood the API behind. But the fact they do not have an option to position data cursor on currently selected track drives me crazy... In fact they have 2(!) independent selection sources. One is mouse based and it is aware about current track (in case you select with mouse or do "Loop to selection" command, unfortunately they are not executed immediately, the same with keyboard based "," track selection). Another is keyboard oriented, it has this separate "cursor" and completely ignore focused track. I have tried many combinations, including hybrid in attempt to find a way to control/deduct this "cursor" vertical position, no luck...

At the same time, this cursor horizontal position is easy to control. So, "select clip under timeline on the track which is in the (vertical) center of the window" is easy to do. Funny, they return current time of this cursor, but not current track! Everything could still be ok in case the cursor can not stay on folders on Control Surface could get some information about folders. But that all was introduced by "new developers" of Cakewalk (it is clearly visible that the "old" part is significantly better, from design and implementation point of view, while all additions and changes are...).

QuoteI have understood your solution.

i didn´t want to sound educational, i was not aware that you know that, because you said that you give up.

Quotedrives me crazy

me too, but i see it more pragmatic: even if it´s not a perfect solution (from programmers view) - if it´s useful and there is no better way, then i just do what´s possible.

QuoteAt the same time, this cursor horizontal position is easy to control

do you mean that can be done by API?

Quote from: MarKo on July 08, 2015, 06:25:44 PM

QuoteAt the same time, this cursor horizontal position is easy to control

do you mean that can be done by API?

Yes. Selection time position can be precisely controlled from API, it is just "second axis" which has "up" "down" "center" options only (without any way to get current value).

Quote from: azslow3 on July 08, 2015, 06:37:20 PM
it is just "second axis" which has "up" "down" "center" options only (without any way to get current value).

ok, that´s not really helpful, because we need to use key-simulation anyway.

I am going to expose that part of API to avoid keys. For clip splitting, "Select clip in central track" function is fastest solution (I have already "select clip" in my latest version, but it is not working with folders, "Select clip in central track" can be simplified version or it without an attempt of vertical search).

Also Sonar has "undocumented" commands "* EC xxxx". I have tested some of they and they work.

QuoteI am going to expose that part of API to avoid keys

if all neccessary commands are available, then this is even better.

QuoteAlso Sonar has "undocumented" commands "* EC xxxx".

Uff, that sounds like some crazy experimenting and hacking around.
You don´t get more infos from devs?

That is not hacking... Sonar expose a list of command ids in the source. Theoretically, all of them which still work should be available "dynamically" in the list of supported commands and you should see more human readable names (all such commands are without "*"). For some reason many still working commands are not in the list.

I have uploaded b256 with "Select Clip on centered track" function. Note that "Select Clip" unfortunately is not working well (any folder in the project breaks it).
"Select Clip..."+"Split clip" in one list (without delay) are working for me.

HI:)

Hab mich jetzt grad nochmal damit beschäftigt:

Im EQ Mode geht nur der EQ (alle Funktionen) und 2 Regler (Trim und Drive) der CE, CMP On/Off auch nicht, dann noch diverse Knöpfe:

AZ Displ., Multidock, Auto, Fine, Act SD. Ich weiss da zum Teil auch nicht, was sie bedeuten....

Ansonsten alles prima;)

Heinz.

Hi Heinz,

Der Comp ging wegen Übersetzungen von Parameternamen in unserer deutschen Version nicht richtig. Ist mittlerweile behoben, braucht die letzte Testversion (0_4r1b254), aber ich hab das Preset noch nicht hochgeladen, da ich noch was anderes fertig machen wollte. Kommt spätestens morgen.

AZ Disp: schaltet das Display von AzController ein/aus
Multidock: macht das gleiche wie PC-Taste "D"
Auto: globale Anzeige ob irgendwo Automation-record aktiv ist
Fine: die Umschaltung zw. Std/Fine-Auflösung der Knöpfe
Du hast aber erkannt dass das Shift bzw. Ctrl-Funktionen sind?
Act SD: ignorieren (hatte ich aber geschrieben)

Ich arbeite eh auch an einer besseren Beschreibung/Erklärung, aber solange sich immer wieder etwas ändert, macht es nicht viel Sinn.

martin

Quote from: MarKo on July 09, 2015, 04:38:30 PM
Ich arbeite eh auch an einer besseren Beschreibung/Erklärung, aber solange sich immer wieder etwas ändert, macht es nicht viel Sinn.

Am Anfang habe ich auch so gedacht. Aber dann vergesst man immer was und wo geändert war, deswegen schreibe ich alle Verengerungen ins "Changelog for development version" und dokumentiere alles in Manual. Nach Veröffentlichung muss ich nur "Changelog" nach "About" verschieben und fertig  :D

Moin moin:)

QuoteAZ Disp: schaltet das Display von AzController ein/aus
Multidock: macht das gleiche wie PC-Taste "D"
Auto: globale Anzeige ob irgendwo Automation-record aktiv ist
Fine: die Umschaltung zw. Std/Fine-Auflösung der Knöpfe
Du hast aber erkannt dass das Shift bzw. Ctrl-Funktionen sind?

Geht alles!!

Fine: Wow, das hatte ich bis jetzt noch gar nicht benutzt, ist ja super!!! Dann hat sich auch die grobe Auflösung beim Sonitus EQ erledigt!

Was anderes:
Wenn ich in der Trackansicht Autozoom aktiviere und mit der Maus eine Spur zoome, wird dann eine andere angeklickte Spur auch in gleichem Masse gezoomt, wenn ich aber mit der BCR zoome, geht das nicht! Das liegt aber wahrscheinlich daran, dass bei der Trackauswahl der betreffende Track nicht "gehighlighted" wird.
Auf der Tastatur kann man mit dem "," die betreffende Spur zur aktiven Spur machen, das nützt aber auch nichts...

War die Spurauswahl +/- nicht mal angedacht für die BCR??

Quoteich hab leider auch viel anderes zu tun, obwohl ich am liebsten da dran bleiben würde.
mir bleibt dann meistens nur nächtens über für die Hobbys.

Ich würde ja gerne helfen, aber wenn ich sehe, was ihr hier so fabriziert, denke ich ich helfe mehr wenn ich nicht helfe:)
Ne, im Ernst, ich hab vor mich heute durch das Manual zu quälen, damit ich vielleicht auch mal was dazu beitragen kann....

Ach ja noch was:

Braucht ihr Vol/Vu und Fit all wirklich so oft?? Für mich wäre es jetzt besser, weil öfter verwendet, die SelIN und SelOut auf die Tasten zu legen, also ohne Shift, weil mit der Maus geht es sonst schneller, mit der Tastatur geht gar nicht, da braucht man 2 Hände. Nur ein Vorschlag:)

bis dann;)
Heinz.

So, "Select" Action is in the latest test version. Current observations:
1) "Data cursor" can be lost (reset to the center) after leaving the selection mode. Not critical in case you "initialize" it (to now time or center).
2) "Data cursor" appears at the vertical window center, I have not found the way to influence that. Horizontal position can be set to "Now time".
3) When selecting whole clips, "Data cursor" is "thick". Which position (clip begin or end) is used as a starting position for future operations is that operation dependent. The behavior is more or less "natural" most of the time (some glitches I have spotted I automatically correct inside the code).
4) Time based selection still selects only tracks relative to the "Data cursor".
5) It looks like some attempt to extend selections by not continuous regions is inside API logic, but I have found the result is normally wrong. So, that is not possible (I "kill" that by glitches fixes in (3)).

Just not to leave you without ideas...
I am testing "Clip" (Edit) Action, which mimic other numeric keys. Looks good so far, but that is an easy way to crash sonar (once editing region is not visible in the track window...) ;)

Quote from: Bassman on July 10, 2015, 08:17:26 AM
Wenn ich in der Trackansicht Autozoom aktiviere und mit der Maus eine Spur zoome, wird dann eine andere angeklickte Spur auch in gleichem Masse gezoomt, wenn ich aber mit der BCR zoome, geht das nicht!

es scheint als würde Sonar die Zoomstufe für Autozoom nur bei Mausbedienung übernehmen.

QuoteWar die Spurauswahl +/- nicht mal angedacht für die BCR??

was meinst du genau, +/- ist doch das "SpeedDial"?

QuoteBraucht ihr Vol/Vu und Fit all wirklich so oft??
Für mich wäre es jetzt besser, weil öfter verwendet, die SelIN und SelOut auf die Tasten zu legen

Nein, ehrlich gesagt brauch ich das nicht oft, das kam eher auf Anregung von Stevie. Und ich wollte mal eine breitere Basis an Funktionen einbauen. Einzelne Tasten umzubelgen oder Funktionen zu verschieben ist ja nicht so schlimm, wenn man mal was funtionierendes hat.
Aber trotzdem wird dir die Lösung im nä. Preset sicher besser gefallen (mir gefällts sogar besser als die Buttons rechts oben dafür zu nehmen, die sind mir zu weit weg).

Ich hab dafür jetzt Taste lange drücken implementiert.
Die Zeit für den lang-Druck habe ich bis auf 2-300 ms reduziert und das find ich jetzt genial so.
Das löst man nicht irrtümlich aus, ist aber trotzdem schnell genug, dass es nicht aufhält.
Alles in Allem die beste Lösung für eine Zweit-belegung.
Leider geht es nicht bei allen Funktionen, weil manche schon beim Drücken reagieren sollten, nicht beim loslassen (Paus/Stop zb.)

Quote from: azslow3 on July 10, 2015, 08:38:32 PM
Just not to leave you without ideas...

i really have to finish what i have so far, before starting new ideas.

Quote from: MarKo on July 11, 2015, 09:02:29 AM
Leider geht es nicht bei allen Funktionen, weil manche schon beim Drücken reagieren sollten, nicht beim loslassen (Paus/Stop zb.)

Nicht unbedingt... Zum Beispiel mein Stop halt den Transport immer  (beim Drücken) aber als "Shift" benutze ich es auch, für die Funktionen welche so wie so Stop brauchen (RTZ, Insert Marker, etc.).

Quote from: azslow3 on July 11, 2015, 09:17:02 AM
Nicht unbedingt... Zum Beispiel mein Stop halt den Transport immer  (beim Drücken) aber als "Shift" benutze ich es auch, für die Funktionen welche so wie so Stop brauchen (RTZ, Insert Marker, etc.).

da gibts aber nur *sehr* wenige, wo das geht!
Insert Marker zb. gehört für mich nicht dazu, das will ich besonders im PLay-modus haben, darum hab ich es extra mit Shift belegt.

Hi there:) 

Just that you know in wich Band I play, or what music I do:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YlIWTMT6pg

I'm not the Base player in this Video, but I am now....

Greetings,
Heinz...

Quote from: Bassman on July 12, 2015, 10:35:26 PM
I'm not the Base player in this Video, but I am now....

Hey, sehr cool!
dann du bist ja ein "echter" Musiker ;)

Quote from: Bassman on July 12, 2015, 10:35:26 PM
Hi there:) 

Just that you know in wich Band I play, or what music I do:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YlIWTMT6pg

I'm not the Base player in this Video, but I am now....

Greetings,
Heinz...

Nice ;)
I think I should try to meet you (I mean visit a concert). Not sure I manage next time you are playing near Frankfurt, but I will check the program calendar periodically...

After testing how it works, I have understood Selection mode a bit better...
It is not possible to select not continuous regions, but it is possible to move Data Cursor without selecting (but not loosing old selection). So the code was modified to make that possible.

I really see some future of all that in my StudioMix preset. With a jogger it is so fast to move throw the track and crop parts. Sure, it is possible just delete after "Split at now time", but crop is not destructive. Nudge is also handy... But I need yet another action for Zoom/Center relative to the data cursor and "Move now time to the data cursor" function.

HI:)

@MarKo

QuoteHey, sehr cool!
dann du bist ja ein "echter" Musiker ;)

Sollte so sein, ist mein Beruf:)
Wie weit ist denn die neueste Version für das BCR?? Bin gar nicht mehr auf dem Laufenden...

@azslow3

QuoteNice ;)
I think I should try to meet you (I mean visit a concert). Not sure I manage next time you are playing near Frankfurt, but I will check the program calendar periodically...

I don't think they are playing near Frankfurt, the most Concerts are in BW, and only 1-2 times a month...
But if really near Frankfurt, I can look for cheap tickets!

Heinz.

Quote from: Bassman on July 14, 2015, 09:25:50 AM
Sollte so sein, ist mein Beruf:)

bin selber nur Hobby Gitarrist, ich mach mehr den Tontechniker.

QuoteWie weit ist denn die neueste Version für das BCR?? Bin gar nicht mehr auf dem Laufenden...

So gut wie fertig, hab nur gestern noch die neue Testversion v. Alexey gesehen und das möchte ich noch einbauen (und einen kl. Bug behoben).
Ich bin mittlerweile höchstzufrieden, ist noch vieles verbessert und ergänzt, auch das Display ist jetzt fertig.

Quote from: Bassman on July 14, 2015, 09:25:50 AM
@azslow3

QuoteNice ;)
I think I should try to meet you (I mean visit a concert). Not sure I manage next time you are playing near Frankfurt, but I will check the program calendar periodically...

I don't think they are playing near Frankfurt, the most Concerts are in BW, and only 1-2 times a month...
But if really near Frankfurt, I can look for cheap tickets!

Heinz.

BW ist noch besser für mich, aber ich habe nur dass gefunden: http://lumberjack.de/termine_und_veranstaltungen/

Quote from: azslow3 on July 13, 2015, 07:07:34 PM
After testing how it works, I have understood Selection mode a bit better...
It is not possible to select not continuous regions, but it is possible to move Data Cursor without selecting (but not loosing old selection). So the code was modified to make that possible.

I really see some future of all that in my StudioMix preset. With a jogger it is so fast to move throw the track and crop parts. Sure, it is possible just delete after "Split at now time", but crop is not destructive. Nudge is also handy... But I need yet another action for Zoom/Center relative to the data cursor and "Move now time to the data cursor" function.

Zoom/Scroll Action is there. GoTo data cursor function is also there. Now I have to understand how to combine all parts of this puzzle together to allow useful functionality  ;)

Moin Alexey:)

QuoteBW ist noch besser für mich, aber ich habe nur dass gefunden: http://lumberjack.de/termine_und_veranstaltungen/

Mehr hab ich leider auch nicht, ich bekomme immer 1-2 Wochen vorher die Noten und die Proben- und Konzerttermine....

Heinz.

Hi Alexey,

i have one issue left, before i consider the preset really complete and finished.
That is ACT Plugin handling. I know the focus prev/next and open/close commands, but when i accidentally press "focus prev" and i have no plugin at all, then Sonar crashes. Same with "open" when there is no plugin. How can i avoid this?
Can you show me where i can look up your plugin-handling?

Quote from: MarKo on July 15, 2015, 02:02:15 PM
Hi Alexey,

i have one issue left, before i consider the preset really complete and finished.
That is ACT Plugin handling. I know the focus prev/next and open/close commands, but when i accidentally press "focus prev" and i have no plugin at all, then Sonar crashes. Same with "open" when there is no plugin. How can i avoid this?
Can you show me where i can look up your plugin-handling?

That is forgotten topic, thanks for reminding...
I have described the situation in the separate topic, since that is of general interest:  http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,225.0.html

Also I have tried to make "Context" functions "crash free" in the latest test version, so you can use "Open next"+"Close previous" combination in any context, also in ProChannel context (all other plug-ins any my own produced SONAR crashes in that case, it is SONAR bug but I think it was simple to fix that inside the plug-in than waiting for the fix... also they will not fix old SONARs for sure).

I have also introduced "Container" System State. The most useful feature of it is that you can now check either current focus is inside ProChannel or not. Unfortunately, "FX Bin" is returned in case of Synth and in case of FXes.

Clip Editing example is complete: http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,226.0.html

But I think that is more toward your "after next" versions ;)

Hi,

bin jetzt für ein paar Tage weg (Urlaub), drum muss ich mich kurz fassen.

@Alexey: danke, das muss ich erst mal alles anschauen.

@Heinz: obwohl nicht 100% fertig, hänge ich die aktuelle Version mal zum probieren an.
Ich hab auch nicht viel Zeit für Erklärungen, drum schau dir den Screenshot an, ich hoffe es reicht.
Comp (Trk+Bus) funkt, Tube ist auch noch dazu, dadurch etwas geändertes Layout.
Automatische Anzeige für Vol/VU: im Play-Mode -> VU, bei Änderung autom. Umschaltung für 2 sec auf Vol; bei Stop -> Vol.
Im ProCh-mode haben die Mute-buttons eine Shift funktion + status led.
Lang-drücken für Sel In/out...
Automation global und pro Spur.
und ganz wichtig, aber unbemerkt: da waren viel böööse Fehler drin, die sollten weg sein.
ich hatte auch zeitweise "ruckeln" bemerkt, aber da kamen durch Faulheit/unwissenheit (Reset all Monitors) manchmal blöde Kaskaden zusammen.

wie üblich: Attachement auf Zip unmbenennen, enthält Preset + Pic

Hi:)

Vielen Dank euch Zweien:)) Hab erst Sonntag wieder frei, aber heute und Morgen früh hab ich noch Zeit für einen schnellen Überblick....ich geb meinen Senf dann Montag oder Sonntag ab;)

Danke und bis denne,
Heinz.

HI:)

Also SelIn, SelOut sind genial gelöst!! Automation Write finde ich auch sehr nützlich!
dB- funzt prima, bei dB+ geht der Focus 24 Spuren nach unten bei 3-maligem Drücken, bei 1 und 2 problemlos.
Das Meiste geht, auch das AZ Display, wie hast denn das hingekriegt??
Track und Bus Compressoren sind auch bedienbar, EQ geht alles und auch sämtlich ON/Off.
Lediglich Rotor 3 und 4 sind beide dasselbe, Auto 1 Zoom, auf dem Bild steh ja Track <>, was immer du damit meinst?

Ansonsten bin ich eigentlich wunschlos glücklich;)
Jetzt muss ich mal ne Weile damit arbeiten, aber ich denke schon, es ist alles sehr durchdacht belegt!

Vielen Dank nochmal,
man liest sich, ich schau eigentlich täglich hier rein...

Heinz.

Hi:)

Nochmal zum 3. Rotor in der untersten Reihe:

War mal wieder mein Fehler, es funzt, nur hab ich zu heftig dran gedreht, sodass nur der Bildschirm flackerte!
Allerdings ist das Ganze zu filigran, also man muss schon ganz vorsichtig dran drehn um auf eine bestimmte Spur zu kommen, "Fine" nützt da leider auch nichts....

@MarKo

Vielleicht reagiert das ja bei dir anders, aber trotzdem klasse Funktion, sehr nützlich in Verbindung mit dem "," um die Spur aktiv zu schalten.

Danke;)
Heinz.

Hallo Heinz,

Ja, der R3 reagiert noch viel zu sensibel (bei jedem Tick), das steht noch auf meiner Liste.

@Alexey: we have an endless knob to select prev/next track and i want to have some kind of "ratio", so that e.g only each 3rd event gets executed (similar to fine resolution for normal controllers).
is there a simpler way, or do i have to use sw-states for this?

QuoteDas Meiste geht, auch das AZ Display, wie hast denn das hingekriegt??

wie meinst du das, hingekriegt? mit viel Arbeit halt...
da sind auch viele Detailoptimierungen drin, zB. je nach Mode unterschiedlich abgekürzte und zusammengestzte Param-namen, usw..
ich wollte das Display möglichst übersichtlich und "aufgeräumt", zB. wird Solo/mute nur angezeigt wenn aktiv, statt der Daueranzeige Solo: ON / Solo: OFF, das gefällt mir wesentlich besser.
Die Anzeige in der Sonar-Toolbar ist dir auch aufgefallen?

Quote from: MarKo on July 24, 2015, 11:54:57 AM
@Alexey: we have an endless knob to select prev/next track and i want to have some kind of "ratio", so that e.g only each 3rd event gets executed (similar to fine resolution for normal controllers).
is there a simpler way, or do i have to use sw-states for this?

The "resolution" is a bit different, we have continuous value and just change by which amount it is moved by EACH tick.

With discrete parameters it is different. I think sw-states is the way to go, you can try many variants till you find what works as best, just several approaches:
1) "accumulate" ticks in some state (by "Set state" by "Endless") to imitate "low resolution". The only tricky part is the direction change. But I do not think it is going to work great alone...
2) schedule some timer in addition, so in case there was only "one tick righ" the strip is still changed after a while (I guess 2-4 timer intervals)
3) or... timer based changes only, the focus is moving no more than 1-2 strips per second, completely independent from turning speed
4) in addition to (3) take the speed into account and move by more that 1 strip

Well, in case you find some good solution and it can be "hardcoded", I can do so to simplify future configuration.

HI:)

QuoteDie Anzeige in der Sonar-Toolbar ist dir auch aufgefallen?

Ähm.....sorry:)  Muss ich am Montag kucken, ich muss arbeiten übers WE:(

Danke und bis denne:)

Heinz.

Quote from: azslow3 on July 15, 2015, 05:24:26 PM
Also I have tried to make "Context" functions "crash free" in the latest test version, so you can use "Open next"+"Close previous"

Ok, i tried many combinations but i can´t get it to work reliable and in some situations i still have crashes.
What i wanted to do:
switch to ACT: open current plugin (if possible, else open first)
switch ACT off: close openend plugin
ACT prev/next: close current & open prev/next
i tried with and without focus (and also focus user-bin), but apart from the first plug (where this seems to work always) i have strange results. PLugIns mostly do not close (i checked with a seperate button with explicit "close" function too).
Do you have an example how to handle this best?

Now i have another reproducable crash related with plugins.
i have some plugins on tracks 1-8.
Toggling ACT and the first plugin does reliable open/close - so all ok.
When i now move WAI to tracks 9-16 (where i have NO plugins) and try to toggle ACT (which should open first plug), Sonar crashes immediately.
Looks like PlugIns must be in the current "range" of WAI, or else crash.

I hope you can provide some example for crash (the preset and exact sequence what you do, may be with project or at least description which tracks you have).

Unlike ACT MIDI AZ Ctrl has no "toggle ACT", so I am not sure what you mean. To open gui on the first FX plug-in on first WAI track, you should use something like:
* Strip/Track/<first in WAI>/add +0/Volume  - WAI Track Volume
* FX/<any>/skip 0/Parameter 1 - FX <any> shift 0 parameter 1
* Function/Context/Open - Open

Please note that Focus and Close (!) work exactly the same way. You need manually specify strip/FX. I just use what Sonar provides, may be I just have not found the trick, but I do not know the way to find currently focused plug-in.

For pro-channel the sequence is more complicates:
1) to ACT focus PC module, the strip should be focused. I mean Function/Select strip after WAI Track Volume
2) use Focus instead of Open.

Focus/Open/Close Next/Previous work different way. Again Sonar internal. Sonar knows where the focus is. They work for FX, Synth and PC (whatever is currently focused), but: for FX, all plug-ins are in the list, strip independent; for PC only modules for current strip are in the list, for Synth all Synth are in the list (but not FX).

In my MCU preset, I use Software Set for "current" plug-in. So, when I move to the next FX plug-in I explicitly increment the state, so I know what should I "Close". I do not know other way, sorry.

I could provide an crash-example in the evening, but it seems i was doing something wrong. And i did´nt want to blame AZ for the crash, i just wanted to know how plugin-handling works best. It seems you have it working good in your MCU, so i will try to understand what you are doing there.
I was not aware that i should use strip-select and FX before open.
Do you mean i should check after FX<any> if last action:success? can this avoid the crash if there is no FX?

QuoteAZ Ctrl has no "toggle ACT", so I am not sure what you mean

sorry for being unclear, i was talking about a button on BCR, which i just call "ACT"

Quote from: MarKo on July 27, 2015, 09:50:25 AM
I could provide an crash-example in the evening, but it seems i was doing something wrong. And i did´nt want to blame AZ for the crash, i just wanted to know how plugin-handling works best.

From your description, the crash is at least initiated by my plug-in. I obviously try to avoid that, even when the problem is not really in my code and even when the preset is incorrect. I have thought that I have covered related crashes already, but it looks like I have overseen something.

Quote
It seems you have it working good in your MCU, so i will try to understand what you are doing there.

MCU is working with plug-ins directly, without ACT. So that is not a good example how you should proceed.

Quote
I was not aware that i should use strip-select and FX before open.

Reading my own documentation, I see that I have found the way to "Close" current ACT plug-in! I somehow forgot that when I was writing my previous replay. In rather bad English, but the information is here  ;)

Quote
Do you mean i should check after FX<any> if last action:success? can this avoid the crash if there is no FX?

No, that is done internally (till I have some bug here, which should be found and fixed on my side).

So here is the crash example as it happens on my system (rename to zip).
The preset is quite minimum. Import the preset and attach 3 buttons for Mode and WAI left/right.
After opening the project, you have to change WAI right/left twice (don´t know why thats neccessary, but before no plugin would open).
Then: If WAI is on Trk1-8, you can open/close first PlugIN with "mode"-button.
But if you switch WAI to the right (9-16) and then try to change "mode" it crashes.
I´m sure it´s wrong what i´m doing there, but you wanted to know crashes which you did not cover.

Thank you for the example! I could reproduce the crash and modify my source. I had no sufficient checks for "Open" and Sonar is crashing instead of simply failing to execute what it can not...

I attach modified preset with what I have found working for your "Mode" button. Please note that I am digging the same way as your, checking what is working and what is crashing. So I do not pretend that action combination is the best.

The idea:
1) We Focus current track volume. It is possible to focus any parameter (yes, focus is working for exact parameter, ACT context is just a "side effect" of focusing a parameter inside plug-in).
2) Then we try to select the first FX plug-in (really the first parameter in the first FX plug-in).
3) In case the plug-in is there, we can Open it.
4) In case the track has no FXes, we ask Sonar to Open Next plug-in. It looks like Sonar start scanning from the strip which has parameter  focus (from (1)) for any FX plug-ins (but not Synth and PC, till there is no FXes at all which I check since that crashes sonar). My first idea was avoid (3), but for some reason Sonar skip the very first FX in the focused track in "Open Next".

For close, I select the first ACT parameter and ask to Close whatever plug-in it is in (I check it is not ProChannel to avoid possible crashes).

Thanks for the fix and the modified preset.
I hope to have time in the evening to check that.

OK, this seems to work much better.
Although i still have to try what´s the best way of plugin-open/close (it doesn´t work all the time, depending on focused strip). But i did´nt have any crash since b277, that´s very good!

Well, if it still does not work, I can make "Select FX" Function. It will search for FXes starting currently selected (I mean in plug-in) strip till the end of this strip type.

Moin moin:)

Ich sehe ihr arbeitet hart:)  Stelle heute um auf Windows 10 und verbinde das mit einer komplette Neuinstallation, die letzte ist schon fast 2 Jahre her und es hat sich ziemlich viel Müll angesammelt, d.h. es funzen viele Sachen nicht mehr so richtig und der ganze Musikballast wird mir auch langsam unübersichtlich, Sonar 8.5, X1, X2, X3, alles noch drauf:(

Das muss alles weg!!!
Aber ich bin nicht weg, setze mir eine neue Partition auf, das Alte lass ich mal vorsichtshalber....

Haltet mich auf dem Laufenden;)

Danke und bis denne,
Heinz.

P.S. Macht sehr viel Spass mit eurem BCR Preset!!!!!

Hi,
ich tüftel noch an einigen Verbesserungen, zb. Spuren fokussieren/markieren mit Solo lang drücken.
auch bei den PlugIns muss ich nochmal schauen, aber das tat zuletzt schon ganz vernünftig.
Den Fehler bei +/-dB hab ich auch noch gefunden, und der TRK<> hat jetzt eine 1:5 "Untersetzung" - reagiert also nicht mehr so übersensibel.
ich denke am Wochenende weiterzukommen...

I have uploaded the version with "Find FX" function. So, the sequence to open first existing FX (if any) starting current strip is:
1) Select Track <current> Volume
2) Function Find FX
3) Function Open

You can check for "Selection Invalid" after to detect no FXes (and so may be not change to ACT mode in this case).

I have already asked myself how to find Synth corresponding to the focused track, and I do not have any solution yet. It can be: MIDI track with output to the synth, audio track with input from the synth or "Simple" (not detectable!) track which has absolutely no information about the synth (from CS perspective)...

QuoteI have uploaded the version with "Find FX" function

Thank you, i will try that later.

Now i have another question: if i´m using a pure virtual control for loopback - how do i assign an unused midi-CC (without reprogramming my BCR)? i mean is it possible to manually "assign MIDI" - a specific unused CC, if my controller currently does not generate these CC?

You can forget the last question (although it could be helpful), i found another solution.
I´m now using real buttons for my loopback-actions, but send a "magic" Value: 42  ;)
so i can detect if it was the loopback, because the real values are 0/127.
But i think it could be "cleaner" and less complicated to use a virtual control.

And another idea:
while trying different solutions, i had a scenario where i wanted to send a CC-number based on a state.
E.g. like CC: <State> Add: x
Same could be done for the CC-values.
Currently i don´t need it, but wouldn´t that be a nice addition?

I will answer the second question first, because it is simpler.
You can use "SysEx/Midi" action (former SysEx) to compose arbitrary MIDI feedback. You just have to select "MIDI" instead of SysEx and compose valid simple MIDI (from constant HEX bytes, state position, HEX state names or even text).

About sending something to sonar.
My thought was to avoid external loopback, and I was so close to the solution when I have found it does not work perfect... Sonar support VST MIDI output and can route that to tracks. So by special automation parameters it is possible to "inject" arbitrary MIDI to Sonar. Unfortunately, that routing is done with one full round trip time delay. So, that is not going to work well for live sending.
To use external loop driver, use "Master" mode for the real preset (default is "standalone") and insert additional AZCtrl instance(s) connected to the loop device.  The only configuration for them is "Slave 1,2,3". You can send MIDI to these instances (using Device parameter in MIDI/Sysex actions), which can be looped back into sonar. I have not measure the latency of that, so either it is going to work better then VST solution is a good question.
Next method to try in my list is MFX plug-in with injection. It looks like MFX is processed in the same round trip cycle, so it can be the best solution from latency point of view. Unfortunately, there is no way to directly record MFX output. So, while reasonable for live use, the result is not "recordable".

maybe there was a misunderstanding.
i didn´t want to loopback midi to Sonar, i was talking about AzCtrl midi-loopback in the feedback-tab.
And therefor i wanted to use a virtual (non existing) control.
But anyway, i´m using now the approach with "magic" values, that works nice.

Ah... sorry.

You can loop send any MIDI (well, I have remembered that I forgot to add this option to SysEx Action, my bad). I mean not only assigned. Once sent, they are processed as the Last MIDI event and you can use them the same way as "real" one, so assign to some controls. I hope that answers the question how to use CC not existing on BCR.

HI:)

Quote from: MarKo on July 31, 2015, 02:08:08 PM
ich tüftel noch an einigen Verbesserungen, zb. Spuren fokussieren/markieren mit Solo lang drücken.
auch bei den PlugIns muss ich nochmal schauen, aber das tat zuletzt schon ganz vernünftig.
Den Fehler bei +/-dB hab ich auch noch gefunden, und der TRK<> hat jetzt eine 1:5 "Untersetzung" - reagiert also nicht mehr so übersensibel.

Sounds very nice:)
Mit Windows 10 bin ich ganz begeistert, bessere Audiolatenz als vorher und der Desktop ist zurück und auch sonst etliche Verbesserunegen wie Mausfokus z.B. endlich kann man am Rädchen drehn und es bewegt sich was sich bewegen soll:)
Meine RME Karten laufen problemlos, allerdings hab ich zu Hause ein V-Studio 100 von Roland, das geht leider nicht oder noch nicht. Keine Ahnung ob die das alte Teil noch supporten:(

Ansonsten kann ich Win 10 nur empfehlen!!

Oki, gebt mir Bescheid wenn's was Neues gibt, wobei ich jetzt schon sehr zufrieden bin!!

danke und bis denne,
Heinz.

Hi Alexey,
i had not much time the last days and just downloaded the latest release.
One thing sounds very interesting - how is this meant?

QuoteCHANGE: the plug-in knows about change of parameters immediately, before SONAR update them, so LED/Display indication can be done inside control processing without tricks

no monitor neccessary to react to the new value?

Hi Heinz,

Quote from: Bassman on August 01, 2015, 12:24:23 PM
Mit Windows 10 bin ich ganz begeistert...

Ich wäre da etwas vorsichtiger, mein Produktivsystem bleibt jetzt sicher so lange wie möglich 8.1.
Das wurde viel schlecht geredet, weil auch wirklich vieles krank war (Kacheln, Charms usw..), aber mit Classic Shell und anderen Einstellungen passt mir das sogar besser als W7 (performance).
Ich hab W10 erst mal auf einer Virtuellen Maschine installiert und probiert - das wäre ja prinzipiell ganz OK, wenn da nicht das diese Frechheiten bez. Datenschutz(Heimtelefonieren), Updatezwang usw. wären. Und diese Inkonsistenzen im UI, also - alte/neue(schreckliche Tablet-) Dialoge finde ich für eine SW dieser Größenordnung einfach peinlich.
Ich warte lieber ab, mein 8.1 läuft super.

Hi Marko:))

I'm so happy with Win 10, so fast ......

Do you have a better Preset with Trk + and - not so empfindlich....that would be great;)

thanks:)
Heinz.

Quote from: MarKo on August 05, 2015, 08:17:07 PM
Hi Alexey,
i had not much time the last days and just downloaded the latest release.
One thing sounds very interesting - how is this meant?

QuoteCHANGE: the plug-in knows about change of parameters immediately, before SONAR update them, so LED/Display indication can be done inside control processing without tricks

no monitor neccessary to react to the new value?

Monitors are still good for what they are, when you change something in Sonar, they provide correct information.

But in case the value required in the action itself, to immediately update the indication (1/13 of a second is quite visible delay in some cases), it is possible now. The primary target was constructing full strip information in "one go", required for my accessible plug-in...

How to use this?
I tried it with "Value" but that did not seem to work.
It could be very useful, because i have now a quite complicated situation with monitors, where this would simplify things.

Quote from: Bassman on August 05, 2015, 10:10:13 PM
better Preset with Trk + and - not so empfindlich

kann ich dir abends schicken.

Quote from: MarKo on August 06, 2015, 09:30:43 AM
How to use this?
I tried it with "Value" but that did not seem to work.
It could be very useful, because i have now a quite complicated situation with monitors, where this would simplify things.

I repeat, that is not a replacement for monitors!

You can use it with Set State (map the value to state set) or Text (get the value text).

Value is there to set new value. It should use use the information as well, but that is just a side effect (so if you do 2x Toggle in one action list it should work logically).

Ok, i have a specific scenario where it´s quite complicated to achieve what i want in the monitors.
I have 8 buttons "Solo" with LEDs (for 8 strips).
And i´m using a "Shift-Mode", where the buttons temporarily (2 sec.) change to other functions. The Solo-buttons become Automation-Write per channel, and also show their state by the LED.
So i have now 2 Monitors for this control:
- the Param Value Monitor (for Solo, ACT, ProChannel, depending on current mode)
- and the Automation Monitor
Therefor i have to use Reset Param Value Monitor or Reset Automation Monitor to show the current value when i change the Shift-State between Solo and Automation-function.
So far so good and works perfect.
If i now want that on Solo-press the strip gets also focused, but only if solo is on, then i have a problem. Because if i do this in the monitor (Value=127 => select strip), it gets also called on shift-changes, for which i found no simple solution till now.
Therefor i would like to check directly in Solo-button-logic if solo is now on or off.
I hope you understand, even if it sounds crazy what i´m doing.

You are right, in this case that make sense. So, at the moment you should decide either focus or not, you can select the strip solo (I guess it will be already selected) and "Set state" from current parameter value (yes, this new feature) to some set with 2 states (On/Off) and then use the result as a condition to immediately focus the track.

Ok, i will try that.
I simplified my scenario a bit to make it more understandable - in reality my scenario is even more complicated because i also use different long-presses on these buttons, and so everything works on NoteOff.
But it sounds like this new feature is what i need!

Thank you very much Alexey!
This new feature makes it MUCH easier for me.

I just tried and checked it with one control-logic, but this seems to be THE solution for my latest ideas (although you didn´t know - did you?).
Now i just have to make ALL these changes...

@Heinz: da hab ich jetzt noch ein wenig zu tun, also warte besser auf das fertige Preset.
Der jetzige Stand ist Baustelle und ich möchte jetzt nicht extra Versionen zurückgehen.

HI:)

@MarKo

Ja klar doch kann ich warten;) Hab noch 6 Wochen Ferien, insofern entfliehe ich jetzt ertstmal der Hitze und fahre an einen See.....
Heut Nacht keine Auge zugemacht ob des Hitzedrucks, leg mich jetzt ins Wasser.

Vielen Dank!
Heinz.

Hi Alexey,

The quite complicated logic for my buttons seems to work perfectly now, with all Modes/Shifted States, long-presses and display too. Thanks again for this useful new feature!

But of course here is the next question: in one function i want to really select/deselect current strip.
"select strip" just sets focus (which is ok), but to really select, i have to use Key:Comma.
And this has problems:
1. it´s not alwyas reliable (depending on focus)
2. it does not work with +Ctrl, so i can not add tracks to selection.
But searching through all commands/functions i could not find a function like "toggle selection for current strip"
Do i oversee something, or is this not exposed?

@heinz: wir hatten heute auch knapp 40°
uff.

Quote from: MarKo on August 07, 2015, 08:25:57 PM
Do i oversee something, or is this not exposed?

Unfortunately, I also have not found it... And since CW is also using just comma in the MCU plug-in and nothing better in the VS-700, that looks like nothing else exists.

QuoteAnd since CW is also using just comma in the MCU plug-in and nothing better in the VS-700, that looks like nothing else exists.

hmm - is there anything additionally done before, apart from select strip?
i have to check again, because that seems not reliable.

API just has the call, from our "experiments" with dialogs, you know that it looks like I use it correctly. Why Sonar is not reacting as expected on "Ctrl+," but does for "Ctrl+A" is a good question.

Hi:) Sorry, my PC was down... SSD:(  Installed Win 10, was great! , Reset for to make a Backup, never get on again:( Tried to Boot with a CD  , SSD not available.....hang on the SSD on another PC, all OK:(  Buyed another SSD...installed Win 10....2 times ok, then nothing again!  i think it's my controller on the motherboard....now I'm frustrated!  I'll let another try tommorow.......have had phone calls with Microsoft...:(  I had to install Win 8 then Upgrade, what the hell?? Not possible in any other way...holy shit, so OK i'm so tired!!
We'll see us...
Heinz.

I had such kind of hell (but in software only) during Win8 upgrade. Installed ok, rebooted, some problem found... autorepair... and then: "Unfortunately I could not solve the problem" with SMILE on blue screen... Nothing could boot after that till complete re-installation.

I have installed 10 on SSD on my mother's computer, but I had no time to test it long (I am in village most of the time, went to Moscow for one day only so far).

I have seen somewhere that after you have installed 10 over 8/7 one time and activated it, you can install 10 strait (without installing 8 again). It can ask for serial number which you should know, but this number is the same for everyone in the world (real check happens during activation and identify your computer based on motherboard id).

HI Alexey:)

QuoteI have seen somewhere that after you have installed 10 over 8/7 one time and activated it, you can install 10 strait (without installing 8 again). It can ask for serial number which you should know, but this number is the same for everyone in the world (real check happens during activation and identify your computer based on motherboard id).

I got a new Serial for Win 10, but it doesn't work after a Hardware Change, so if you only change the order of the HDDs, you have to install it completely new:(
What a bullshit:(

Would be very nice if you can get this Serial;)

Thanks,
Heinz.

Hi,

i didn´t have much time the last days but here is now the next preset - which i consider quite finished.
So if you find something unexpected, please report.
I´m now finishing description/readme for this and the usage (perhaps i´ll try i short video too) and then i´ll post this on official forum too.
I´m not sure which of the latest changes i´ve already mentioned and there have been many small optimizations and fixes too.

Solo long does now select/deselect track.
Stop long switches back to 8Track-mode and sets focus to Tracks.
This is a handy way to get back to "standard-mode", so whatever mode is currently active (ProChannel, ACT, BUS), you quickly return to standard.
ACT button toggles ACT-mode and opens/closes PlugIn. In ACT-mode, the bank-buttons switch through PlugIns.
Shift-mode in 8Trk and ProChannel optimized.

As always: attachment contains preset + picture, rename it to zip.
If you want a Hi-res pic or PDF for printing, then ask me - it´s too big for uploading here.
I use it also for printing labels which i stick to my BCR.
And i plan some HW-modifications too - if they are successfull i´ll describe it here.

Edit 2015.08.17: fixed some bugs and exchanged in upload (b5.4)

Hi:)

@MarKo

Thank you very much, I'm testing all tomorrow!! Today I have to reinstall everything:(
But the Motherboard is working again, so perhaps it was the heat from the last few days....?

So I hope I got a clean Windows 10 Install....

Cu;)
Heinz.

Hi,
please wait for the next preset, i found some serious bugs related to the latest changes.
With so many different modes/states, it really get´s complicated sometimes!
But current version looks promising, so i hope to upload it in the evening.

Hi,
i think i´ve fixed the bugs (Vol/VU & Shift not resetting correctly).
please reload the preset from previous post

HI:)

Ok, thanks:)

Now I'm ready, all is installed, only have to make a Backup first....

Heinz.

HI:)

Ich denke ich hab mal alles durchprobiert, lediglich ein paar Sachen sind mir aufgefallen, der ConsEmu Knopf und der EQ Type Knopf gehen nicht bei mir.

Dann geht manchmal der ProChannel Modus nicht, also die EQ Knöfe reagieren nicht, ich kann aber leider noch nicht nachvollziehen, wann genau das nicht geht, muss das morgen nochmal testen....

Die Plugins umschalten im ACT Mode ist super und mir scheint jetzt geht auch die Lernfunktion besser, die Regler sind nicht mehr durcheinander nach der Lernfunktion.

Manchmal funzte das Auswählen der Spuren nicht oder vielmehr wurde die falsche Spur aktiv geschaltet....aber auch dazu morgen mehr!

Bis denne,
Heinz.

Quoteder ConsEmu Knopf und der EQ Type Knopf gehen nicht bei mir.

bei mir gehen sie - aber sie reagieren etwas seltsam!
man muss recht flott rechts drehen um hochzuschalten, aber links rum gehts zu schnell.
K.A. warum die so reagieren.

QuoteManchmal funzte das Auswählen der Spuren nicht

Ja, das hab ich auch manchmal und auch noch keine Ahnung wodurch es passiert. Es hat was mit Focus zu tun, weil mit "Bus" hin/her wechseln (oder spätestens mit Mausklick) gehts dann wieder. Das hätte ich noch gerne verbessert...
Aber sonst ist´s für mich schon ziemlich optimal.

Quote from: MarKo on August 18, 2015, 11:51:08 PM

Quoteder ConsEmu Knopf und der EQ Type Knopf gehen nicht bei mir.

bei mir gehen sie - aber sie reagieren etwas seltsam!
man muss recht flott rechts drehen um hochzuschalten, aber links rum gehts zu schnell.
K.A. warum die so reagieren.

So reagieren diese Parameters auf kleine Änderungen. Ich habe in AlphaTrack preset dagegen gekämpft. Eine generelle Lösung habe ich noch nicht implementiert, der einzige Weg ist "Ausnahmelist" für bestimmte Parameters für jeder VST/ProChannel.     

Quote

QuoteManchmal funzte das Auswählen der Spuren nicht

Ja, das hab ich auch manchmal und auch noch keine Ahnung wodurch es passiert. Es hat was mit Focus zu tun, weil mit "Bus" hin/her wechseln (oder spätestens mit Mausklick) gehts dann wieder. Das hätte ich noch gerne verbessert...
Aber sonst ist´s für mich schon ziemlich optimal.

Ich habe noch nicht das Preset getestet, hast du Strip Type Monitoring mit korrekte Track/Bus Umschaltung? Zum Beispiel wie in AlphaTrack preset.

Quoteder einzige Weg ist "Ausnahmelist" für bestimmte Parameters

gute Idee, das werde ich machen.

QuoteStrip Type Monitoring

hab ich noch nicht, auch weil ich das AlphaTrack-preset damals nicht durchblickt habe.
ich habs mir zwar mal kurz angesehen, aber komplexe fremde Presets zu verstehen ist nicht leicht. Wenn ich es dann selber mache, dann verstehe ich es auch.
Aber ich denke das sollte jetzt keine große Schwierigkeit mehr sein.

HI:)

EQType  und ConsEmu

Quotebei mir gehen sie - aber sie reagieren etwas seltsam!
man muss recht flott rechts drehen um hochzuschalten, aber links rum gehts zu schnell.
K.A. warum die so reagieren.

Ahja, mit schnell drehen tut sich was....

Hab heute ein paar Stunden ganz normal mit diversen Files gearbeitet, eigentlich alles super!! ACT ist geil mit dem Durchschalten, die Spurauswahl hat heute auch die ganze Zeit getan!! Gestern hatte ich die BCR noch zusätzlich über das RME Midi verkabelt gehabt, hatte ich völlig vergessen von vor Wochen, da gab's sicherlich irgendwelche Loops....

Klasse;)

Bassman.

Hi nochmal:)

Hab doch noch was gefunden:

ACT geht bei den Bussen nicht, Spurauswahl ja.
D.h. ACT funzt aber man muss das Plugin von Hand aufmachen, dann bleibt der Schalter auch auf Rot, wenn man draufdrückt....

Bassman.

Hi:)

Kommando zurück!!! ACT funzt auf den Bussen, lediglich der LP-64 Multicompressor will nicht so richtig, der funzt auch auf den Tracks nicht...
d.h. wenn man ein 2. Plugin in dem Track einfügt, dann geht's!

Bassman.

Hi:)

Jetzt hätte ich noch was kompliziertes:)

Nach dem Drücken von "ProCh" seh ich ja im Inspector den Prochannel des ausgewählten Kanals. Ich hab mal versucht, per "Hotkeycontrol" ein Macro zu erstellen, das mir das FlyOut Window öffnet, tut es aber leider nicht:( Irgendwie versagt dieses Programm, hab die Jungs mal angeschrieben....

Gibt es eine Möglichkeit, dieses FlyOut per Knopfdruck oder gleich zu Beginn zu öffnen? Compressor u.s.w. lassen sich auch bei geöffnetem FlyOut weiterhin bedienen....

Hab bei AZ Controller alles durchgekuckt, aber nix gefunden!

Danke vorab;)
Heinz.

Letzte CS API Änderung war vor FlyOut Zeit... Besonders für ProChannel fehlen ein paar wichtige Funktionen.

Vieleiche ein "Future request" kann was bewegen, falls die es für Binding implementieren, wir können es sofort für CS benutzen.

Hi Alexey,

Ich hab jetzt das Alphatrack durchsucht nach den 2 Lösungen für Strip-Type Monitor und CE/EQ-Type Value.
Aber ich finde da nichts - bitte genauere Hinweise.

danke, martin.

Hi Heinz,

ich war jetzt nicht so aktiv die letzte Zeit...
was meinst du mit LP64 und ACT? Bei mir geht der genauso wie andere auch.
Und natürlich im Bus, der LP64 ist ja eig. nur für Bus und Mastering, den sollte man eher nicht per Track verwenden, oder? (wo er aber genauso funkt).

Ansonsten hab nur mehr an minimalen Fehlern/Verbesserungen rumgemacht.
Spur-Solo geht jetzt auch trotz ProCh-Mode (aber natürlich ohne Led im ProCh-Mode).

Und ich hab mir inzwischen eine Beschriftung aus selbstklebender wetterfester Folie gedruckt.
Foto meiner BCR im Anhang, Docx zum Ausdrucken könnte ich schicken.

Hi MarKo:)
Erstmal danke für die Super Arbeit!! 
Ein kleines Anliegen!  Ist ja zu vermessen, aber ich hab keinen Farbdrucker, meinst du könntest mir, gegen Entgeld natürlich einen Farbdruck schicken????
Wäre dir sehr dankbar!!
Ansonsten kann ich gar nicht sagen wie zufrieden ich bin!! Das Arbeiten macht nur noch Spass!!
Danke danke danke;)

Bassman.

Quote from: MarKo on August 23, 2015, 10:35:32 PM
Hi Alexey,

Ich hab jetzt das Alphatrack durchsucht nach den 2 Lösungen für Strip-Type Monitor und CE/EQ-Type Value.
Aber ich finde da nichts - bitte genauere Hinweise.
danke, martin.

Sorry... It is "not logical" and hard to find:
* Strip Type Monitoring:
  State - "Strip"
  _Fader :: Timer Feedback

  _fChangeSType is the only reliable method to change strip type in Sonar. Current "Strip" (from monitor) is used, that is important.
  note that it is updated also in the first action. "Useless" setting current strip type is also important, I guess it is a kind of Sonar bug.


* EQ/Type:
Middle Encoder, Mode:EQ, Page:2.
Note that _EQStyle Set is monitored by "_Encoder2 :: Parameter Value Monitor" and so "Endless change" is working from actual current state.


PS. Nice photo of your device with folio ;)

QuoteStrip Type Monitoring

i must be missing something, but i can´t see where "Strip" is monitored??
i see "recall focused strip" in _Fader, but where get´s it set?

Quote from: Bassman on August 24, 2015, 02:40:55 AM
meinst du könntest mir, gegen Entgeld natürlich einen Farbdruck schicken????

kann ich gerne machen, schreib mir ein PM (Name anklicken > Send PM)

Alexey, you can forget my last question, i think i´ve found.

Hi Alexey,

finally i´ve got Strip-Type + WAI-Type follow working perfectly in both directions (mouse/Surface - took some time to understand).
But as you might know, i always have another wish/question.
Now it would be nice for the WAI group (8Tracks) to follow current track.
So clicking on Tr.3 sets WAI to 1-8, and click on Tr.11 sets WAI to 9-16, and so on.
I´m sure that´s not hard, but currently i don´t see the solution.

I attach example preset.

Explanation:
In example, WAI has 3 strips and it is moved to cover currently focused strip.

MoveWAIFunc (with assigned MIDI) is what really move WAI (since Strip action is required, that can not be done in Monitor directly)

MoveWAI has:
1) WAIFocus State monitor which schedule delayed execution. The delay should be more than all possible monitor delays in currently selected strip detection (type and strip number), to avoid "Ultra" speed with priorities for all related monitors (we just "wait" till we know all required information for sure)
2) Once Timer trigger MoveWAIFunc in case we still need it (Focused strip is not in WAI)

WAI 1,2,3 monitor corresponding strip "Current" status. The target: in case no from WAI strips has focus, WAIFocus state should be "No". It is focused strip in relation to WAI otherwise.

Focus has timer with focused strip type detection and corresponding state monitor to set correct visualization for WAI (width only).

Many thanks for the example.
Although i have to study it extensively, this one is not easy to understand completely!
And i have to think hard how to integrate this with my existing logic, without breaking something.

In your example, the 3-strip-WAI is centered around selected track.
So if WAI is on 1-3 and i select Track 4, then it shifts to 3-5.
If i want it to jump only in complete groups (in this case it should be 4-6, then 7-9,...) is that possible?
Something like current strip number modulo WAI-width?
But don´t spend too much time on that, because i´m unsure if it´s really worth the troubles.

QuoteSomething like current strip number modulo WAI-width?

i think it could be possible if i would get the current strip number into a State.
But although i can get the strip number to display (as text), i found no way of setting a corresponding state.
Is that possible?

No, currently not possible. While I can add something like "Align by N" in Strip selection, I do not see it as practical... Let say you have 8 strips on surface and want control 3 guitar tracks. In the example, you will be able to do so by selecting any from this 3 tracks, independent from the position in the project. In case we align by 8 and the first guitar track is number 8, you has to "adjust" WAI position. That is why all surfaces have "shift WAI by 1 strip" in addition to the block switch.

About integration: strip type monitoring you need in any case (for reliable strip type switching and correct WAI indication), WAI "width" you also need (for indication and initial). I have found that focused strip (in relation to current WAI) is valuable information by itself, on display or on surface (MCU has "Select" buttons with LEDs) since once you are in the middle of the project with more that 8 tracks, there can be orientation difficulties. And so, that only addition is the state monitor which trigger WAI moving function.

I know what you mean about Track-groups not aligned to surface boundaries, but i´ve found that i have more orientation difficulties if my surface is NOT aligned in groups of 8.

So i tend now to organize my tracks so that they fit best in groups of 8.
I even leave a track empty, if that makes sense. E.g. if i had 6 or 7 drum-tracks, then i would group them together on 1-8, leaving 1 or 2 empty, just to have it organized. But thats just my workflow and only works if the surface has enough strips.

I thought about shift WAI by 1 strip, but first i have to find a useful way for my button-layout (it´s quite full), and second i found that i don´t really need it much. And third is that i have WAI-position LED´s, which show me where i am (currently up to 32, but that could be extended - i didn´t need that much). And of course the WAI-LED´s only work correctly for those 8-strip-groups, so i´ll stick to use it that way.

If i really need to move WAI to some "not-aligned" position in a special situation, it´s just one mouse-click on the track-number and i do "Move WAI here".
But it´s not worth to put more work into that, it was just so nice that the surface now follows Tracks/Bus-Focus from Sonar-UI that i had this idea.

I see... I will add that option once I am "back in business" (next days).

Hi:)

@MarKo

1.Is it possible, just for me, instead of just stop, to stop and go back 2-3 bars??  Sometimes it's much better, when I cut a lot of material out. Normally I have always cut it out and then press Strg-PgUp 2-3 times or more to hear the cut area again. So I could save 2 or 3 different presets for differents projects. I tried, but it does not do what I want to do=:-)
For sure I could all do with BCR, but in this case (I've tried) it is much faster to cut(mark) with Alt+Mouse and then Cut Out and Delete Hole with Strg+Alt+X. So I have Mouse and Keyboard in hand. For then Scroll with BCR is not handy, Strg+PgUp is faster! (In this Case!) Much faster --> automatically go back 2-3 bars at stop!
With CAL language you can go back, but you can't do stop:(

2. You have the Master on the first Master Volume, but I have 13 Masters! If I set "Master Volume" to "Last Master Volume" I can only change Output 26 instead of 25/26 Stereo or both channels. I have had Master on Bus Master First, but it is better to control the output level itself, cause my Mixing Desk is now far away, I have now BCR2000 in front of me and the pc keyboard above. How can I set it to the last Stereo Output?  (SPDIF OUTPUT)

3. Welche Knöpfe kann ich nochmal alles für ACT verwenden??

Thanks;)
Heinz.

Hi Heinz,

Quotestop and go back 2-3 bars?

Are you sure that you want that on every stop?
I think a better idea for you could be to put that on Stop-long.
The "Mode-Reset" which is now on Stop-long (reset ACT/PC, switch to 8-Trk, focus Tracks, Shift+Ctrl off) may not be that important for you (although i like it).
So you have to decide...
And we could theoretically introduce another "very long press", so that:
- Stop = Stop
- Stop-long(200ms) = Stop & go back 3 Bars
- Stop-verylong(1 sec) = Reset all Modes
What would you think?

QuoteMaster

i have just one stereo master at the moment, so can not really check.
But you should be able to select ANY specific master with: Master <First> add +X
Or: Master <Last> add -X
Then you could check if linking/grouping the Left/right Masterfaders (the Lock-symbol) solves your problem, that did it for me. And if your Master is 2 individual channels, then you must control both channels with the same parameter.

In the meantime i did some more improvements:
- EQ-Style and CE-Type handling improved (works nice now)
- fixed: Pan+Send for Buses now working
- Solo buttons work now in ProChannel too (but without indication, because in PC-mode the LED is used to show selected Strip)
- "Shift-layer" in 8-Track-mode:
Pan becomes Send1-Pan, Send 1 > Send 2, Solo > AutomationWrite
- 2 x Shift = Shift-lock: if Shift-lock is ON, then the LED above (WAI-right) flashes fast to show the LOCK-state (because Shift-button self has no LED). Also shown in AZ-Display.
- WAI Shift +/-1 Left/right: even if i don´t use that much, i have added it (just for completeness) ;-)

Hi:)

QuoteAre you sure that you want that on every stop?

If I know how to set it, I could make 3 different presets...

QuoteAnd we could theoretically introduce another "very long press", so that:
- Stop = Stop
- Stop-long(200ms) = Stop & go back 3 Bars
- Stop-verylong(1 sec) = Reset all Modes
What would you think?

Yesssss, cause I love that long stop button too;)

QuoteBut you should be able to select ANY specific master with: Master <First> add +X
Or: Master <Last> add -X
Then you could check if linking/grouping the Left/right Masterfaders (the Lock-symbol) solves your problem, that did it for me. And if your Master is 2 individual channels, then you must control both channels with the same parameter.

That's it, thanks:) With Lock and Add it works!

Quote- EQ-Style and CE-Type handling improved (works nice now)

:)

Quote- fixed: Pan+Send for Buses now working

Great!

Quote- "Shift-layer" in 8-Track-mode:
Pan becomes Send1-Pan, Send 1 > Send 2, Solo > AutomationWrite
- 2 x Shift = Shift-lock: if Shift-lock is ON, then the LED above (WAI-right) flashes fast to show the LOCK-state (because Shift-button self has no LED). Also shown in AZ-

Send1 -> Send 2, that's whar I need:)

QuoteDisplay.
- WAI Shift +/-1 Left/right: even if i don´t use that much, i have added it (just for completeness) ;-)

Must see, if I need it sometimes, but great to have the ability:)

You forgot to tell, which rotors and knobs I can use for ACT, I know you wrote it down, and I looked at all posts, but can't find it..

Thank you;)
Heinz.

QuoteYesssss, cause I love that long stop button too;)

i will try to add that "very-long press".

QuoteWith Lock and Add it works!

fine!

QuoteSend1 -> Send 2, that's whar I need:)

or would you prefer Send 2 + 3 instead of Send 1 Pan + Send 2 ?
i´m not sure what is more needed - do you use Send-Pan?

Quotewhich rotors and knobs I can use for ACT

All buttons and rotors in the Strip-section, except the top-row rotors (VU), so that´s 16 buttons + 24 rotors.

Hi all,

Here comes Beta6, which should really be the one to "release", until no bugs are found.
I will start then a new thread for the final Preset.

Latest changes (see also Pic):
- Bus/Track follows Sonar-focus
- Stop-long (~200 ms): Stop and go back 2 Measures
- Stop-very_long (~1 sec): Reset from all modes back to Standard-layout
- new Shift-layout and Shift-Lock (2xpress):
in 8-Trk-mode: Send1>Send2, Pan>Send3, Solo>Automation
in ProCh-mode: Send1>Send1-Pan, Send2>Send2-Pan, CE-Type>Track-Vol

I decided to include Send2+3 in 8-Track-mode, while accessing the Send-Pans in ProCh-mode with Shift, this made most sense. And i discovered that i often wanted Track-volume in ProCh-mode too, so i put that on Shift+CE-Type (top-right rotor).
I also found the function "stop & back 2" quite interesting, so i decided to keep this in my preset. It works in Stop-mode too, so is a handy way of going back 2 measures. Thanks Heinz for the idea!

I also improved the display again, it should show correct Params/values in every mode/state.

But if you just look at the Stop-logic, this is really weird what´s possible with AzControl!
In the end it has 8 functions!
1. Stop if playing
2. Goto Begin if stopped
3. In Tempo-dialog: OK
4. long press: Stop+back 2
5. very long press: Reset to Standard
6. +Shift: Loop Selection
7. +Ctrl: Loop On/off
8. +Shift+Ctrl: Escape (switch BCR to Preset 2)

Now finally i can´t imagine that we could put much more functionality into the BCR.
Hope it works for you.

Moin moin:)

QuoteI decided to include Send2+3 in 8-Track-mode, while accessing the Send-Pans in ProCh-mode with Shift, this made most sense. And i discovered that i often wanted Track-volume in ProCh-mode too, so i put that on Shift+CE-Type (top-right rotor).
I also found the function "stop & back 2" quite interesting, so i decided to keep this in my preset. It works in Stop-mode too, so is a handy way of going back 2 measures. Thanks Heinz for the idea!

I more often use Send Pan than Send 3, but as you did it is more than OK;)

OK, so much more functions to learn, set's see if I can get it into my brain:) For sure I will love it!!!

Thanks;)
Heinz.

Hi again:)

@MarKo

Have you tried ACT?? For me only Mute1, R1-8(Pan) and R9-16(Send) are working for ACT! All others do not. Of course 16 Rotors are enough, but 4 Knobs would be better than 1....

thanks:)
Heinz.

Hi Heinz,
leichter auf deutsch...

ich hab gerade nochmal alles durchprobiert - bei mir scheint alles OK.
Bist du sicher dass es keine ACT-Zuordnungsproblem ist?
Schau mal in AzController auf der Overview-seite, da wird der akt. ACT-Regler + Parameter angezeigt.
Was zeigt sich wenn du die anderen Mute/Solo-Buttons drückst?
Und die unterste Reihe wird als ACT-Slider, also S1-S8 gesendet.
Wäre auch interessant was das Az-Display für die anderen Regler zeigt (leer wenn nix zugeordnet).

Hi:)

Bin grad auf dem Sprung, aber im AZController zeigt es alle Buttons an, aber nur beim ersten mit Toggle, wenn das was zu sagen hat....
Im AZ Display zeigt es alle zugewiesenen auch an, allerdings kann ich per ACT Learn die restlichen Knöppe nicht zuweisen, genausowenig die 8 Slider, werden einfach nicht akzeptiert.
Also wenn ich auf ACZ Learn geh und alle 8 Slider bewege und Learn beende, zeigt es nichts an, ansonsten "das und das wurde bewegt"

Muss gehn, da wartet jemand auf mich.....Melde mich morgen früh oder vielleicht heute Abend noch....

danke erstmal;)
Heinz.

Du hast recht, im Learn-Modus ist etwas faul!
Ich habe momentan keine Ahnung was/warum, bzw. seit wann, da ich schon länger nichts mit Learn belegt habe. Hat mich immer wieder zum Verzweifeln gebracht, darum hab ich die XML editiert.

@Alexey: hast du eine Ahnung was da falsch ist?
ACT-Buttons bzw. Slider werden zwar korrekt in Overview angezeigt, aber die Learn-Funktion ignoriert sie.

ACT learn has (too) many bugs:
http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,5.0.html

I have not changed anything (testes with X2 right now, it works like expected). I remember the feeling with SPlat it is worse then before, so I also prefer XML editing. Since VST3 is impossible to learn at all, that is the only option for modern plug-ins.

Hi nochmal:) Hab ne kleine Radtour und hätte Zeit zum Nachdenken! Kann es sein dass die Learn Funktion die Elemente der Reihe nach erkennt, d.h. wenn nu 1Button benötigt wird, erkennt er auch nur einen, halt der Reihe nach nur den ersten! Nur eine Idee! Probier mal nen Synthie mit richtig viel Parameter......
Ich Probier da mal morgen früh, bin noch ne Weile unterwegs:)

It seems to me that the problem is the default control type, which mostly is set to knob.
If you edit the genericpluginparams.xml and change the types to switch or slider, then its working also with learn.
As i see it, you can assign so many buttons, as controltypes-switch appear in genericpluginparams for this Plugin. So if there is no switch-type, its not possible to learn a button. But it does not matter which parameter you change - as long as there are X switches, you can assign X buttons. The same of course for sliders. That´s my findings.

HI:)

Wie ich gesagt hatte! Wenn du ein PlugIn mit sehr vielen Parametern nimmst, geht's!! D.H. Bei Dimension Pro konnte ich die 16 Rotors und die 8 Slider zuordnen. Auch 16 Knöpfe werden erkannt, liegt also daran, dass nur soviele gehn, soviele Parameter es bei dem PlugIn gibt!
allerdings kann man mit Bank +- nicht durch Synthies schalten. Ist ja auch was völlig anderes....

Ok, somit ist das Problem geklärt für mich!

Cu;)
Heinz.

QuoteWie ich gesagt hatte! Wenn du ein PlugIn mit sehr vielen Parametern nimmst, geht's!

ich bin nicht sicher ob wir das gleiche meinen. ich meinte es müssen in der genericpluginparams schon ausreichend viele Controls des richtigen Typs drin sein.

Testweise habe ich noch einige durchprobiert, bei fast allen waren nur controltype=knob eingetragen (obwohl natürlich jedes Plugin auch "switch"-parameter hat) - und dann kann ich eben keine Buttons "learnen". Also muss ich zuerst die nötigen Anzahl an Parametern von Knob auf Switch editieren, erst dann kann ich die auch zuweisen.
Aber wie schon gesagt editiere ich dann gleich weiter die XML und spar mir das "Learn"-Theater.

Hi:)
Du hast recht!! Man muss eh die Reihenfolge in der generic Datei ändern! Gut, einmal musst du auf Learn, damit ein Eintrag drin steht!

Heinz

Das blöde XML-editieren hat mich schon zu oft genervt jetzt...
Ich hab mal versucht ob´s leicht möglich wäre einen simplen grafischen Editor dafür zu machen, und das sieht machbar aus.
So ungefähr wie:
- PlugIn auswählen
- alle Parameter werden aufgelistet
- Drag&Drop von Param auf Surface-Control

Moin Martin:)

Na dir muss ja ganz schön langweilig sein;)

Super Idee!!! Das Ausprobieren nervt schon ziemlich, bis die Reihenfolge stimmt. Hab meine wichtigsten Plugins soweit belegt, aber ich hab noch längst nicht alle installiert. Wenn ich Waves installiere, kommen ein paar Hundert dazu, wobei ich davon höchstens 10 oder so verwende! In letzter Zeit kuck ich immer, soviel wie möglich von Platinum zu verwenden, um die Übersicht zu behalten!!! Ich nehm als EQ und Compressor fast nur noch Prochannel....
Den Editor benutz ich selbstverständlich gerne!!! Irgendwann muss ich mich mal erkenntlich zeigen bei dir!!!

Noch ne Frage: Kann ich die generic Datei auf einen anderen PC portieren und geht das dann? Ich hab Sonar auf 2 Rechnern, einer im Studio, der andere in der Wohnung. Sitz lieber in der Wohnung wenn ich allein arbeite.
LG
Heinz.

Good idea!

I was thinking about something like that. Current schema implemented in AZ Controller was working for me more or less well, since:
1) my sonaract.xml is "broken" since long time, that was not an intention, but as the result only generic xml is used by Sonar (which has many advantages)
2) till VST3 and some (I can not say which) version of Sonar, learn was working. I am pretty sure I was able to assign new switches, I mean I could change parameter types without prior XML modifications.

In addition, I have understood that current ACT schema has 2 week points:
1) some parameters are not good mappable generic way, you know that from PC EQ Type for example
2) static mapping using ACT is not practical in most cases, even with ACT banks and/or so many controls as BCR2000 has.

Let me explain (2). Let say you have EQ as a separate plug-in or as a part of some overall strip control plug-in (Sonar has several of them). I would prefer that Freq/Gain/Q are mapped to 3 controls plus one control switch bands. For any plug-in which has EQ section. But once I switch to Compressor mode, the same controls modify dynamics related parameters.
In case EQ and Compressor are "stand alone", that can be organized by ACT. But with plug-ins implementing EQ and Compressor, that is possible only using per plug-in/mode lines in preset and that is nightmare even compare with XML editing.
Note that I would like to see some other categories of control groups like LFO and other synth parts, reverb, etc.

I am still in early planning of roadmap to implement that. But I hope once done, that will supersede ACT.

-----

For ACT XML mappings. I have never tried that, but sonar has "Import ACT data..." button to import parts of XML mapping file. I mean it should be possible to create separate XML files for one or more plug-ins and share these files without destroying user mappings for other plug-ins.

May be we should try that approach. I think for one particular device good mapping is more or less universal and so it can be the subject to share. At the same time, replacing the whole generic file can produce bad side effects for users with more that one control surface device.

Hi Alexey,

QuoteGood idea!

thanks, but first it has to work...

Quotemy sonaract.xml is "broken" since long time

how to do that intentionally? just brake XML-structure? currently i delete it every time.

QuoteI am pretty sure I was able to assign new switches

i´m also quite sure, but currently i can not assign switches if there is no switch in the generic.xml. But i´m still on X3e and so didn´t update anything (apart from AzCtrl).

Quotesonar has "Import ACT data..."

we should try if that works for sharing ACT-mappings - this could be very useful!

Now about your plans:
I see it a bit different, but i assume this depends on controlsurface and personal usage.
For me the static mapping seems ok, but only because i have enough controls.
The 32 endless + 16 buttons are more than enough to work with, because if there are much more controls needed, then it´s not useable efficiently for me anyway from CS, so i would use the PlugIN-interface.
To map similar params of different plugins to the same controls seems like a nice idea, but i´m not sure that this will work for many plugins.
I prefer mapping the controls similar to their screen-layout, but again this depends on possibilities of the surface.

What i have in mind additionally, is expanding the static ACT-map with 8 quick-mappings.
So that in my ACT-mode i have up to 24 static mapped controls + 8 of those speed-dials (the last 8 touched params).
That is now really the last idea i have left for expanding my preset.

Hi Heinz,

QuoteNa dir muss ja ganz schön langweilig sein;)

das kann ich nicht wirklich behaupten.

QuoteKann ich die generic Datei auf einen anderen PC portieren

prinzipiell ja, aber wie Alexey auch meint - da verliert man natürlich eine evtl. andere Belegung. Wenn du aber 2 gleiche Installationen hast (sonst würden ja auch die Projekte nicht funktionieren), dann sollte das schon gehen.
Einfach ausprobieren und die Datei natürlich vorher sichern.

Quote from: MarKo on September 02, 2015, 11:24:29 PM

Quotemy sonaract.xml is "broken" since long time

how to do that intentionally? just brake XML-structure? currently i delete it every time.

I have no idea... that has happened long time ago, unnoticed. Firefox opens it fine, Sonar writes it after any ACT learn once, but it does not use it then and remove related section on next restart. I can send you this "nice broken" file once I am back home (next week).

Quote
Now about your plans:
I see it a bit different, but i assume this depends on controlsurface and personal usage.
For me the static mapping seems ok, but only because i have enough controls.
The 32 endless + 16 buttons are more than enough to work with, because if there are much more controls needed, then it´s not useable efficiently for me anyway from CS, so i would use the PlugIN-interface.
To map similar params of different plugins to the same controls seems like a nice idea, but i´m not sure that this will work for many plugins.
I prefer mapping the controls similar to their screen-layout, but again this depends on possibilities of the surface.

What i have in mind additionally, is expanding the static ACT-map with 8 quick-mappings.
So that in my ACT-mode i have up to 24 static mapped controls + 8 of those speed-dials (the last 8 touched params).
That is now really the last idea i have left for expanding my preset.

I agree that is use case specific. I miss explained functionality especially for controlling synth like Z3TA by my MPKmini (8 knobs only). And 16 encoders on my StudioMix are also not helpful in case the number of parameters is bug (100+). In the original Alphatrack plug-in I have found really nicely mapped to 3 encoders all EQ parameters. Easy to remember and use.

@MarKo

I have uploaded b281 (in the release) with Align option for WAI.

QuoteI have uploaded b281 (in the release) with Align option for WAI.

Thank you, i wil try that.

Meantime i made progress with ACT-XML-Editor, which seems to work now (after some headaches).
It´s really unbeliebable that they don´t put a little work into ACT and CS-Api.
With very little effort all this could work much better.

Moin:)

@MarKo

Hab noch festgestellt, dass Bank links bei ACT nicht geht, stört mich jetzt nicht, ich schalte eigentlich immer nach rechts durch, wollte es dir nur mitteilen.

Was anderes: ich hab ein Plugin da ist es völlig egal, wie ich die Reihenfolge oder die Nummern in der genericplugins ändere, es bleibt immer gleich, also völlig durcheinander. Bisher konnte ich alle anpassen, mittlerweile hab ich geblickt, dass für die unteren 8 "Slider" eintragen muss, sonst gehn sie nicht.
Kann das sein, oder hab ich da was verbockt in der Datei...? Das Plugin heisst 112dB Redline Reverb, bisher das Einzige wqas sich nicht anpassen lässt....

Merci:)
Bassman.

P.S. Bin wie immer zu voreilig:)  ACT Bank links geht, nur geht das vorherige Fenster nicht auf, der Focus stimmt schon! Dann ist mir noch aufgefallen, dass Zoom1 und Zoom (vertikal) vertauscht sind, also 4+5 in der untersten Reihe.

Dann sind das glaube ich die VST3 PlugIns, die sich in der "generic" nicht ändern lassen, bin am Überlegen, ob ich bei allen die 64bit Varianten nehme. VST3 bringt mir jetzt persönlich gar nichts...

HI:)

Die Zooms hab ich vertauscht, aber das mit ACT Bank krieg ich nicht hin, ist aber egal!!!
Somit komme ich zu einem anderen Problem:  (Keine Ahnung ob das geht...)

Ich hätte gerne mehr Regler für Volume, also anstatt Pan --> Volume 9-16, anstatt Send1 --> Volume 17-24, z.B.

Aber nicht generell die Belegung ändern, die ist klasse so!!!! Wenn das geht, dann auf Preset 2 der BCR, aber dann müsste man auch ein anderes AZSlow Preset machen.
Vielleicht geht das ja mit einem Doppelklick wie bei deinem Shift Button.
Wenn ihr mir, auf das AZSlow Preset B6 aufbauend, 1 Kanal erklären könntet, müsste schon für Dummies erklärt sein, dann würde ich den Rest schon irgendwie hinpfriemeln!!

Wenn es nicht geht, bräuchte ich für das Preset 2 der BCR einen funktionerenden Kanal mit der Feinauflösung wie bei B6, ich verzweifle wahrscheinlich sonst...

Ok, die grosse Frage, geht das überhaupt, wenn ja super, dann wie? Wenn nein, auch kein Problem:) Dachte nur, für die Feinjustierung der Laustärken wäre es eine grosse Hilfe, wenn nicht immer nach Bankwechsel abzählen muss, welchen Regler man jetzt braucht.

Jetzt werde ich unverschämt:)
Wenn ich Spuren verstecke, dann fehlen die auch in der WAI, d.h. anstatt 12345678 hab ich dann z.B. 12578, also nur noch 5 Tracks. Ich hab mir jetzt aber schon angewöhnt, die wichtigen Spuren nach oben bzw. nach links zu verschieben, das geht eigentlich auch, dauert halt länger.

So, habe fertig, sorry für die vielen Wünsche, aber nach längerem Arbeiten fällt mir so das ein oder andere ein:)

Schönen Urlaub noch und merci vielmals;)
Heinz.

I am back in HD, good air (more oxygen), my auto, no traffic jams...

Now for questions: I can not change presets of myself "on the fly". But I do not think that is required. If you configure hardware preset 2 for BCR with different MIDI for encoders, you can just add these as additional encoders. For simplicity, completely different "Hardware control" (while to follow original AZ Ctrl logic, you can defined "Hardware state set" "Preset" with 2 states "Preset 1" and "Preset 2", add it to the existing "Hardware context" of "Logical controls" with "Preset 1"  and add additional Hardware Context with Logical Control to the same Hardware control with "Preset 2". That is why these Hardware Control, Hardware Context and Logical Control was defined by me at the first place...)

Which strips are "visible" for control surfaces is controlled in the Sonar Preferences. You can select "all" (independent from what is hidden) or follow hidden status either in the track view or in the console (there is separate preference either these 2 sets should be kept in sync by Sonar).

I have not understood other questions, sorry...  :(

Hi,

Quotedas mit ACT Bank krieg ich nicht hin

Sorry, das gab ich übersehen, ist aber ganz einfach zu ändern, schau dir nur die gleiche Stelle in WAI-right an, also dort wo Mode:ACT beginnt.
Statt: Open Next, Close prev.* einfach Open prev, Close Next*
Aber im nä. Preset ist es korrigiert.
Falls ich vergessen habe es zu schreiben: die Zooms hab ich bewusst getauscht, mir ist die Reihenfolge irgendwie lieber.

Zu deinem Wunsch: was wäre mit analog zur 2.belgung bei Shift-lock, ein ähnlicher Modus für 24 tracks Volume?
Muss noch nachdenken - das mit den Preset-wechseln möchte ich mir eigentlich nicht antun.

Moin:)

@Alexey

Better MarKo does it, too complicated for me, but thanks for this answer:)

@MarKo

Quote- new Shift-layout and Shift-Lock (2xpress):
in 8-Trk-mode: Send1>Send2, Pan>Send3, Solo>Automation
in ProCh-mode: Send1>Send1-Pan, Send2>Send2-Pan, CE-Type>Track-Vol

I decided to include Send2+3 in 8-Track-mode, while accessing the Send-Pans in ProCh-mode with Shift, this made most sense. And i discovered that i often wanted Track-volume in ProCh-mode too, so i put that on Shift+CE-Type (top-right rotor).

That works fine with that double-click in 8-track mode!
If that is possible in 8 track mode with another switch for the volumes, would be great:)

QuoteSorry, das gab ich übersehen, ist aber ganz einfach zu ändern, schau dir nur die gleiche Stelle in WAI-right an, also dort wo Mode:ACT beginnt.
Statt: Open Next, Close prev.* einfach Open prev, Close Next*

OK, got it;) Thanks. I deleted 2 Mode ACT and inserted what you have written above.

QuoteZu deinem Wunsch: was wäre mit analog zur 2.belgung bei Shift-lock, ein ähnlicher Modus für 24 tracks Volume?
Muss noch nachdenken - das mit den Preset-wechseln möchte ich mir eigentlich nicht antun.

Bei Presetwechsel hat Alexey geschrieben dass es möglich wäre mit Hardwarepresets, aber da kennst du dich wesentlich besser aus!!
Aber ich denke du hast recht, wenn es anders geht ist der Presetwechsel umständlich.

QuoteMuss noch nachdenken

Gehirnjogging beugt bekanntlich Alzheimer vor;)

Spass beiseite, ich weiss gar nicht wie ich mich erkenntlich zeigen kann für die ganze Arbeit. Vielleicht kann ich euch ja mal musikalisch oder mixtechnisch zur Seite stehn!

Thanks a lot:)
Bassman.

Moin Heinz,

ich habs mal überschlafen und ich glaube eine gute Möglichkeit gefunden.
Wir haben sogar noch eine LED frei - der Button FitAll ist noch etwas "unterbelegt", da könnte man zb. mit long-press den 24-track-mode umschalten und auch anzeigen.

Wenn aber schon ein Mode für mehrere Spuren, wäre es doch überlegenswert gleich für alle 32 Knöpfe, oder?
Was meinst du: sollte man die unterste Reihe mit den globalen Funfktionen belassen, oder in dem Modus auch für Volume benutzen?

Hi:)

QuoteWenn aber schon ein Mode für mehrere Spuren, wäre es doch überlegenswert gleich für alle 32 Knöpfe, oder?
Was meinst du: sollte man die unterste Reihe mit den globalen Funfktionen belassen, oder in dem Modus auch für Volume benutzen?

Ich hab mir noch überlegt, wenn schon 32 Knöpfe, dann vielleicht 16 Volume und 16 Pan für den First Mix oder Final Mix, also ich hab zwar auch schon völlig überladene Arrangements gehabt, aber so für den Normalgebrauch reichen mir eigentlich 16 Volumes, aber:

Quotehttp://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/Rolling-Updates?utm_source=bronto&utm_medium=email&utm_term=See+other+SONAR+Features+coming+soon&utm_content=SONAR+%22Hopkinton%22+Update+now+available+%7C+Rapture+Pro+offers+ending&utm_campaign=Aug+14+-+SONAR+Platinum&_bta_tid=3.TPY.CFvXwA.CEK0.6mO0..AyhbYg.b..s.ASDY.a.Vd3iVw.Vd3jPg.zE0sUQ&_bta_c=cmzvb3k03r7pj0q0xk3l8p4x9pl2z#In-The-Oven

da ja Track to Track Routing vor der Tür steht, ist es vielleicht doch besser, gleich 32 mit Volume voll zu machen, freu mich schon riesig auf dieses Feature:) Also sowohl Track to Track als auch 32 Volumes.
Wenn du mir ein Beispiel gibst für einen Kanal, kann ich dir den Rest auch machen, kostet ja Zeit ohne Ende, ich hab morgens Zeit für sowas....

Die untere Reihe braucht man eigentlich nicht für das "Normale". Ich denke man lässt loopen und kümmert sich um die Lautstärken oder/und Pans! Auf Knopfdruck hat man ja wieder alles andere.
Wenn ich es hinkriege mach ich dann 2 verschiedene Presets oder vielleicht auch 3, ich meine Mixeln ist ja wie beim Friseur:

Waschen, Schneiden, Legen und Föhnen:)

Für jeden Vorgang anderes Werkzeug...mit deinem Preset sind wir dafür bestens gerüstet!

Bis denne,
Heinz

About "all to all routing". In the Track and Buses concept, there was clear latency route and so clear PDC (plug-in delay compensation). With arbitrary routing, that is no longer so straightforward.

For example:
Audio Input -> Track  1 -> Track Fx1 -> Track Fx2
* -> Bus1  -> Bus Fx1 -> Output.
* -> Bus2 -> Audio Output.
The audio is processed in buffers (for example 128 samples), so the whole route Input->Output is happening every buffer samples/Sampling frequence (128/44.1kHz ~ 3ms). 

But let say we route Bus1 output to Track2 which in turn is routed to Bus2. If you use old approach starting from Tracks, Track2 will get 3ms delay which should be somehow accounted. Or you can process Track2 as "a bus" which is just visually in the track list. But you still need some compensation in case you record it.

It is possible to do all that correctly, but I have worries that is not going to happened at the beginning. The origin for these worries is MIDI processing. You can already now route MIDI track to VST and MIDI output from this VST route to another MIDI track. If you record both tracks live, you get 3ms delay. So, they are not compensating in this case. But if you record the first track and then (from it) the second, the result is compensated.

What I want to say, it can take some time till that new feature works without strange timing glitches.

HI:)

@Alexey

I think if all is recorded and recording is finished, I always do rendering, especially freezing the whole Synths, so years later it doesn't matter if you don't have this synth anymore!!! For example, there are very more matters to do that!

It will be great to have the DrumMasterTrack just beside the Drums or the GuitarMasterTrack just beside the Guitars and then go to a Bus for them, so you don't need to do anything in the Bus, ok perhaps a little Lowcut or Compression. I don't need much Compression, I hated those Loudness War and I love when the EBU 128 standard comes out!!!!
Dynamic is a MUST!! 

We'll see how virtual Tracks work, perhaps it comes next month.....

Greetz;)
Heinz.